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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| is so delicious wrote: |
It's a "real" university gig. Ha... at least I would be teaching university students. Though yeah... they don't really offer the perks you've come to expect from teaching uni.
I just can't convince myself to work a crap(pier) job for the next year, when I'm ambivalent about my future. Maybe I'll regret it. My goals in life are vague... save as much money as possible (without going to the middle east) and retire as early as possible. Maybe if I hate teaching kindergarten, I'll know it's time to move on after.
By the way... and I'm not even joking... ethics aside, what prevents people from lying on their resume and saying they've worked at a university? I've gotten a few job offers and my references told me nobody ever contacted them. And I substituted at a university for a week and... well, let's just say it's listed as a little longer on my resume. Nobody seems to have checked into it.
Not looking for pats on the back or anything, but I don't think I'd have a problem lying to get my foot in the door, as long as everyone was happy. I'm sure this will bring a few lectures, but... any thoughts? |
Change that to the next two years. If you want to move up, you need to show that they liked you. If you apply to a new job while in your first year there, they will think that your current uni. does not like you and you are leaving because they do not want to renew you. If you apply to a new job during the end of your second year, then they will think you did a good job to have been renewed for that second year and now you want something better. I have been on hiring committees where the chair of the committee said that someone who has only taught at one university for one year is cut fast to make the list shorter. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| is so delicious wrote: |
It's a "real" university gig. Ha... at least I would be teaching university students. Though yeah... they don't really offer the perks you've come to expect from teaching uni.
I just can't convince myself to work a crap(pier) job for the next year, when I'm ambivalent about my future. Maybe I'll regret it. My goals in life are vague... save as much money as possible (without going to the middle east) and retire as early as possible. Maybe if I hate teaching kindergarten, I'll know it's time to move on after.
By the way... and I'm not even joking... ethics aside, what prevents people from lying on their resume and saying they've worked at a university? I've gotten a few job offers and my references told me nobody ever contacted them. And I substituted at a university for a week and... well, let's just say it's listed as a little longer on my resume. Nobody seems to have checked into it.
Not looking for pats on the back or anything, but I don't think I'd have a problem lying to get my foot in the door, as long as everyone was happy. I'm sure this will bring a few lectures, but... any thoughts? |
If you're looking to retire early, I wouldn't bank on the ESL route.
Terms of just getting your next uni job, it's true you could pad your cv with lies, seems to happen a lot out here. Problem is, karma's a bitch, and you don't know when it's gonna bite you. Practically speaking, somewhere down the road someone's gonna see right through you. Then no one will be happy.
If you just want a sure way to enjoy a nice fat pension by your forties (I'm assuming you're 20ish), step right up and enroll in the armed forces.
DISCLAIMER: This is assuming you avoid combat (or hazing) situations hazardous to your body and mind.
http://www.nku.edu/~issues/hazing/military.html
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2005/11/28/naked-soldiers-fighting/ |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Does one university gig generally lead to another? |
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| is so delicious wrote: |
I got offered a university gig. I've been working in Korea a few years and majored in English, and have a strong professional background in editing/writing, but I don't have a Master's degree, so I'm pretty surprised.
Anyway... I have another job offer- actually I signed the contract already- that is paying more per month (though the uni job pays pretty well- 3.0, but no housing or severance, compared with 3.1 and no housing, but severance). It's with kindergartners, which I don't have much experience with and am only half-sure I can handle well. But I only teach 30 HALF HOUR classes per week. Also slightly better teaching hours, severance, same amount of vacation, less lesson-planning, etc.
I think I'd take the latter, all present things considered. However, I have no plans to go back to my home country, and have long envied those with the three or four month paid vacation/12 hours a week college gigs.
My question- sorry this is long-winded- is: will many universities take you on if you have a years' experience at the university level, but no MA? If it's fairly common, it might be worth it... otherwise I figure I should just take the first job and have more money while working less.
Thoughts/experiences are appreciated. |
I've been slagged off on the eslcafe for making caustic comments about foreigners who get university jobs yet their online spiels on the university's website show little to no reason why anybody like them would be hired given their inability to put together a good, grammatical English sentence or mention any kind of university related work or higher degrees in their background.
I've also been slagged off for not being caustic but simply pointing out that there are more foreigners than you'd think teaching English (EFL, English conversation) at universities and colleges without an MA or Phd in Korea. Yet certain busybodies on the cafe feel free to slag me off although
1) The lack of credentials of a fair few foreigners who work at Korean universities is a fact - no previous university/college/company etc experience, lots of kiddie teaching, no MA, no Phd.
2) I have a BA in English, another degree and a Celta and have taught all age students and have had jobs at big corporations in Japan. There's far more to my cv. I have never got an interview at a Korean university and I have given up starting from 2 years ago.
I say this to you to let you know that despite a few of the people on the cafe who are working at universities and like to trumpet their higher degrees and denigrate those of us who have an equally good or better cv but don't have those higher degrees, there are foreigners who are working at universities with nothing but a BA and kiddie teaching experience. Where their qualifications are better, they haven't just taught kiddies but school age students as well.
I'd go for that unigwon job - far better than kindie in Korea. While Korean kids of all ages are generally funny and good to teach, the kindie age kids here are allowed to do what they like by their parents and this includes running riot when they feel like it by some of them. I've taught kindie in Japan but I'll never do it in Korea.
Once you've got a foot in the door of a university I think you are better placed to make contacts and hear about other university opportunities. Which brings me back to my initial point about some of the foreigners teaching at university level without the qualifications we are continually told we must have - they certainly knew somebody to get those jobs. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
| You also mentioned that ranking plays a huge factor. You do realize that all three "SKY" universities have shit conditions for qualified foreign ESL instructors, right? |
I am not sure which to reply to; the reputation or the conditions. You speak of both in the same breath, yet the two ideas have nothing to do with one another. The rep of the SKY unis is good, regardless of how you think the staff are treated (which you are incorrect about, as I have a friend at one and he is quite satisfied).
Now, to further my post, a unigwon at a generic uni will not usher you into anyting really. It beats teaching kindy, so again, take it and good luck. |
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is so delicious
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah... I'm just not sure it beats kindy. I know I'd enjoy teaching college students more than kids, but it will basically cost me almost four million won, and I'd be working what amounts to almost twelve classes more per week. My hope is that uni isn't THAT much better than kindy.
It's also one of those new-age style kindergartens... lots of emphasis on creativity and whatnot, field trips every Friday... I observed a class for a bit and they seemed like good kids. Hopefully I'll like them more than elementary school kids. They haven't turned into smart-a sses or whatever. My buddy switched from elementary school to kindergarten, and he loves it. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I honestly can't imagine a situation where kindy beats uni(or ~gwon), but if the 4 mill means that much, then I guess you have your answer. I will say again that if you are thinking of moving into a uni job at some point, don't teach kindy....anything but that. It just has truly zero appeal on a resume, save for another kindy or elementary school gig.
Whatever you choose, be the best at what you do. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| is so delicious wrote: |
| By the way... and I'm not even joking... ethics aside, what prevents people from lying on their resume and saying they've worked at a university? I've gotten a few job offers and my references told me nobody ever contacted them. And I substituted at a university for a week and... well, let's just say it's listed as a little longer on my resume. Nobody seems to have checked into it. |
Murphy's Law. You tell the truth and no one checks. The one time you lie, someone will call your references. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Also bear in mind that down the line at some point, you may come to the realization, that, (gasp!) life is just as much about the giving as the getting. But everyone's got to go through what comes their way. If lying crops up in your mind as a prime doable choice, go with it, it can end up being a great teacher. I hope you get to a point where you understand what I'm saying to you in your bones, not just your mind. I do indeed, brother. |
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livinginkorea
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Korea, South of the border
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| is so delicious wrote: |
It's also one of those new-age style kindergartens... lots of emphasis on creativity and whatnot, field trips every Friday... I observed a class for a bit and they seemed like good kids. Hopefully I'll like them more than elementary school kids. They haven't turned into smart-a sses or whatever. My buddy switched from elementary school to kindergarten, and he loves it. |
Haha good to catch them before they change!
Personally, I love teaching at university level but I taught kindergarten nearly everyday for 2 years and loved it too. Once you use action and try it for fun (songs, role-play, etc) then they really enjoy it and you can too.
Career wise I think university is the way to go. However, if you want to relax and make more money now then take all the kids classes you can get. The money is in teaching English to kids, not adults. You could even end up developing programs or get into writing textbooks for kids. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Is a university teaching job in Korea a "gig"?
Are they all merely "gigs"?
I thought if one was lucky enough to get a position at a university that it was more of a profession.
No? |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| The rep of the SKY unis is good, regardless of how you think the staff are treated (which you are incorrect about, as I have a friend at one and he is quite satisfied) |
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=45515
2.1 for 26 hours a week + split-shifts? Sign me up!!! |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| That's the unigwon though, not the regular dept job I beleive. |
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willteachforfood
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
Is a university teaching job in Korea a "gig"?
Are they all merely "gigs"?
I thought if one was lucky enough to get a position at a university that it was more of a profession.
No? |
As with any job, in any field, the conditions and benefits vary wildly. Some university jobs are ridiculously good and others are ridiculously bad (compared to the former).
I found that while my school is OK in terms in benefits (good off-campus housing, full 4+ month paid vacation, reasonable albeit not extraordinary pay, 95% autonomy with regards to books/teaching style) that it is far from being a "profession". The English department lecturers are treated NOTHING like the other departments, and I am not only referring to pay. Much of what goes on at the uni is a farce, and if you were to take the job 100% seriously you would soon feel like you were beating your head against the wall.
I disagree with the posters who say that it's not really possible to get university interviews with only a BA. If you're willing to live anywhere in Korea you will definitely get interviews (assuming that you meet other criteria). Sure, in the big cities the schools can be more selective, but most of the countryside schools still have a reasonably difficult time recruiting highly qualified instructors (at least on paper). Yes, Koreans are crazy for their degrees and the name of the school you went to, but there are many other factors that go into university hiring that are very important. One biggee is age, most universities prefer lecturers who are over 30, or at least 27/28, so a 24 year old with a BA and 2 years experience at public school is going to have a completely different response to their applications as a 34 year old in the same boat. The second factor is your presentableness and interviewing capabilities, not to mention the professional appearance of your CV, follow up calls, and so on. Sending a hard copy of your resume on nice paper goes a long way towards making yours stand out.
In response to the OP....your initial question is quite juvenile. Of course one university job leads to another, assuming you do a good job. In any field, the more experience you get in Job X, the more likely you are to land another job doing the same thing. I think that what many people fail to recognize, however, is that there is much more to getting a good job and moving up in the world so to speak than building a strong CV with degrees and years of "experience". |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| The rep of the SKY unis is good, regardless of how you think the staff are treated (which you are incorrect about, as I have a friend at one and he is quite satisfied) |
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=45515
how
2.1 for 26 hours a week + split-shifts? Sign me up!!! |
FLI. Not a university position in any way, shape or form. Again, I was speaking of the reputation of the institution, not how they pay or treat the staff. Why are people unable to separate these ideas? You can give me any facts you like, but it won't change the fact that the SKY unis are the most reputable. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| willteachforfood wrote: |
| The English department lecturers are treated NOTHING like the other departments, and I am not only referring to pay. |
I'd be interested in details on this if you don't mind. Also: can the differences be explained by them unfairly discriminating against foreigners, or because the English lecturers don't have PhDs and don't publish? |
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