| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Kuros wrote: |
Here's a Russian perspective
The New Iron Curtain
| Quote: |
The current upheavals in Egypt might signal the start of a new chapter in world history. A new Iron Curtain is rapidly descending over the Middle East.
Any revolution in Egypt will be fundamentalist in nature. It will have a domino effect, leading to fundamentalist revolutions in the region and creating a new geopolitical reality that is only a little less scary and tense than was the confrontation between communism and capitalism in the 20th century.
[T]he establishment of fundamentalist regimes in the Middle East will lead to a serious confrontation with most of the world. Moreover, their ban on banking activities and the denial of women�s basic human rights � both integral elements of Islamic fundamentalism � alone will make it impossible for a fundamentalist Middle East to defeat the free world economically or militarily. As a result, those states will rely on terrorism as the main weapon for promoting militant Islam throughout the world. |
The American right and the neo-cons worry about what's going on in Egypt, but the Russians seem to be really fretting.
That all said, I think this perspective is a bit too certain of itself. The Muslim Brotherhood hasn't hoodwinked the Egyptian electorate just yet. I mean, let's get to that electorate first before we condemn it to Islamism. |
I tend to agree. The Brotherhood may be organized, but they really lack a charismatic figurehead a la Khomeini, whereas the secular contingent has El Baradei. Moreover, I have a really hard time seeing the Egyptian military being coopted by the MB, considering how closely tied they are to the United States. I realize that Iran's military was also close to the US, but the relationship didn't have the same length or depth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
| legrande wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| I think Jvalmer called it correctly. the military which is showing restraint holds all the cards. Hope this ends well for the Egyptian people and does not end up a blood bath like in Iran. |
Yes, that is correct in the sense that now the military looks on while a pro-Mubarak faction has begun actively attacking, not only injuring Egyptians, but foreign reporters on the scene as well.
Same tactics were and are still used in Japan and Korea- this way the guys upstairs are innocent bystanders.
No one is under the illusion of who sponsors these thugs to do their dirty work for them, and unfortunately the initialing letting of blood thanx to the military often leads to bloodbaths as occurred in Iran and Korea. |
My guess is the military generals are divided on what to do, so until they sort it out, the tanks are just sitting on the sidelines. Military 'involvement' requires agreement from the majority, if not all, senior military officers in order to avoid a conflict. |
Just curious. I'm in the states now on my winter break, and am wondering what type of coverage Korea is getting (i.e. through the asian version of CNN). The Korea Time website hasn't carried anything except an article speculating on the economic fallout for Korea.
Issues which have been made pretty clear over here seem to come across as very specualtive over to those in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| legrande wrote: |
Just curious. I'm in the states now on my winter break, and am wondering what type of coverage Korea is getting (i.e. through the asian version of CNN). The Korea Time website hasn't carried anything except an article speculating on the economic fallout for Korea.
Issues which have been made pretty clear over here seem to come across as very specualtive over to those in Korea. |
Captured Somali pirates and Seollal traffic are making the headlines. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
Captured Somali pirates and Seollal traffic are making the headlines. |
In other news:
Everyone in the world is happy with their government except North Koreans, so shut the hell up. Also, protests can never overthrow governments, so don't even think about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice to see the post showing a Russian perspective. Most post are too U.s. centric.
In Iran Carter did nothing, there was a split in the administration. the hawks wanted the military to take control. Carter did not want that fearing a massacre. so they did nothing. Then Carter allowed the Shah to enter the U.s. for cancer treatment and cut the legs out from under the moderates. The radicals then slaughtered any opposition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice to see the post showing a Russian perspective. Most post are too U.s. centric.
In Iran Carter did nothing, there was a split in the administration. the hawks wanted the military to take control. Carter did not want that fearing a massacre. so they did nothing. Then Carter allowed the Shah to enter the U.s. for cancer treatment and cut the legs out from under the moderates. The radicals then slaughtered any opposition. Hopefully a lesson was learned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rollo wrote: |
Nice to see the post showing a Russian perspective. Most post are too U.s. centric.
In Iran Carter did nothing, there was a split in the administration. the hawks wanted the military to take control. Carter did not want that fearing a massacre. so they did nothing. Then Carter allowed the Shah to enter the U.s. for cancer treatment and cut the legs out from under the moderates. The radicals then slaughtered any opposition. Hopefully a lesson was learned. |
US interference in Iran goes back to the Eisenhower era, funding the ousting of democratically elected prime minister Mossadegh, and the take over by the Shah (whom our gov't propped up until 1979).
Incidentally, it was David Rockefeller (and his stooges Kissinger and Brzezinski) who got Carter to admit the Shah (his "wonderful friend and a wonderful man") into the US. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| comm wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
Captured Somali pirates and Seollal traffic are making the headlines. |
In other news:
Everyone in the world is happy with their government except North Koreans, so shut the hell up. Also, protests can never overthrow governments, so don't even think about it. |
??? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
Captured Somali pirates and Seollal traffic are making the headlines. |
In other news:
Everyone in the world is happy with their government except North Koreans, so shut the hell up. Also, protests can never overthrow governments, so don't even think about it. |
??? |
He was paraphrasing the current ROK gov't |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Actually in Iran in was the British who plotted the coup. they owned the oil and the refinery, they had the larger interest. U.s. agreed to help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rollo wrote: |
| Actually in Iran in was the British who plotted the coup. they owned the oil and the refinery, they had the larger interest. U.s. agreed to help. |
Same difference. However, the coup itself ('Operation AJAX') was actually executed by the CIA, carried out by Kermit Roosevelt Jr. (grandson of Theodore Roosevelt). It was the CIA (more than Brits) who funded it from start to finish (including paid mobs of pro-Shah rioters).
After the coup, the AIOC monopoly was removed, and all the major Rockefeller oil companies, as well as Royal Dutch Shell were given rights to Iranian oil. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Tony Blair has described Hosni Mubarak, the beleaguered Egyptian leader, as "immensely courageous and a force for good" and warned against a rush to elections that could bring the Muslim Brotherhood to power.
The former prime minister, now an envoy to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, praised Mubarak over his role in the negotiations and said the west was right to back him despite his authoritarian regime because he had maintained peace with Israel. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/02/tony-blair-mubarak-courageous-force-for-good-egypt
At least Bush has mostly kept his mouth shut. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bush was the one to go on and on about spreading democracy in the middle east and regime change. I wonder what he thinks about this.
Blair is a lobbyist for the Saudi regime so anything he says is tainted by that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
