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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| In Thailand or Taiwan or China, by comparison, there really aren't "foreigner-mostly" bars... foreigners and non-foreigners just go to this or that or the other restaurant, without discrimination of effect or choice. |
I don't think that Thai nationals are allowed into the go-go bars on Soi Cowboy in Bangkok.
Not sure about these days, but I know that in the past a lot of Thai tourist attractions had 'double pricing'. Farangs paid double the price that Thais did to enter museums and other tourist places. |
Right, like I said, Farang= money to Thai people.. hence double pricing. Soi Cowboy, Nana, Pattaya, etc, are places Farang can go but Thais may not be allowed to go. (but if you went to live in Thailand for a year or more and those are the only places you hung out, thats pretty pathetic, but thats aside from the point) But Korea is the opposite because Koreans can go anywhere if they want, but waygookin really shouldnt go to many a Korean place. For farang in Thailand in non-tourist places, however, it's OK to go anywhere for sure...Korea again the opposite since non-tourist places are the worst in Korea for defacto or even dejure discrimination. Both Korea and Thailand have that circle of nationalism, but the way they view those outside of that circle is different.... |
Thais don't understand why the go go scene interests foreigners. They also don't consider all those Isaan girls working the scene attractive.
They have a far more extensive network of "entertainment" for themselves, ranging from the priciest massage and karaoke joints to the lowest of brothels (where foreigners are occasionally also not allowed).
One of the most amusing and popular myths among idiot Western moralizers about Thailand is that the "entertainment" scene was created for and by foreigners.
btw.. saw an ad in the BKK post for an accountant for the Brazilian Embassy. Sounds very prestigious (and probably is).. requirements? accounting skills/background and minimally a working knowledge of Portuguese (fluency preferred). Offered salary? 30K baht a month (1000 USD) Many bargirls beat that salary working far less hours and at least occassionally having a hell of lot more fun. |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course...  |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course... |
And by interesting, you mean "entertaining or otherwise engaging"
And by made up stories, you mean things that didn't happen right?
And by made up, you mean "not true"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| In Thailand or Taiwan or China, by comparison, there really aren't "foreigner-mostly" bars... foreigners and non-foreigners just go to this or that or the other restaurant, without discrimination of effect or choice. |
I don't think that Thai nationals are allowed into the go-go bars on Soi Cowboy in Bangkok.
Not sure about these days, but I know that in the past a lot of Thai tourist attractions had 'double pricing'. Farangs paid double the price that Thais did to enter museums and other tourist places. |
Right, like I said, Farang= money to Thai people.. hence double pricing. Soi Cowboy, Nana, Pattaya, etc, are places Farang can go but Thais may not be allowed to go. (but if you went to live in Thailand for a year or more and those are the only places you hung out, thats pretty pathetic, but thats aside from the point) But Korea is the opposite because Koreans can go anywhere if they want, but waygookin really shouldnt go to many a Korean place. For farang in Thailand in non-tourist places, however, it's OK to go anywhere for sure...Korea again the opposite since non-tourist places are the worst in Korea for defacto or even dejure discrimination. Both Korea and Thailand have that circle of nationalism, but the way they view those outside of that circle is different.... |
Thais don't understand why the go go scene interests foreigners. They also don't consider all those Isaan girls working the scene attractive.
They have a far more extensive network of "entertainment" for themselves, ranging from the priciest massage and karaoke joints to the lowest of brothels (where foreigners are occasionally also not allowed).
One of the most amusing and popular myths among idiot Western moralizers about Thailand is that the "entertainment" scene was created for and by foreigners.
btw.. saw an ad in the BKK post for an accountant for the Brazilian Embassy. Sounds very prestigious (and probably is).. requirements? accounting skills/background and minimally a working knowledge of Portuguese (fluency preferred). Offered salary? 30K baht a month (1000 USD) Many bargirls beat that salary working far less hours and at least occassionally having a hell of lot more fun. |
You're right, one of my former university students in Thailand actually wrote a paper stating that only 10% of the sex trade there is geared toward foreigners... It's been that way for hundreds of years. Thailand has a strange and interesting entertainment sector to say the least. Someone very close to me -- Thai-- used to work for an American company as an accounting analyst... her salary: 38,000 baht per month. Same position in the same company back in the US: 80,000$ a year. Hmm, about the bar girls having fun, I've heard they get worn out pretty fast doing that line of work. And to make that much, they have to turn at least 6 or 7 tricks per week... |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course... |
OK, here's a real one: the water pipes in our apartment froze last week. Among other things, we can't take showers. We tried to go to a local jimjibang to take a shower. We were turned away because we are waygookin... (we just found another place that did allow waygookin, however). |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| In Thailand or Taiwan or China, by comparison, there really aren't "foreigner-mostly" bars... foreigners and non-foreigners just go to this or that or the other restaurant, without discrimination of effect or choice. |
I don't think that Thai nationals are allowed into the go-go bars on Soi Cowboy in Bangkok.
Not sure about these days, but I know that in the past a lot of Thai tourist attractions had 'double pricing'. Farangs paid double the price that Thais did to enter museums and other tourist places. |
Right, like I said, Farang= money to Thai people.. hence double pricing. Soi Cowboy, Nana, Pattaya, etc, are places Farang can go but Thais may not be allowed to go. (but if you went to live in Thailand for a year or more and those are the only places you hung out, thats pretty pathetic, but thats aside from the point) But Korea is the opposite because Koreans can go anywhere if they want, but waygookin really shouldnt go to many a Korean place. For farang in Thailand in non-tourist places, however, it's OK to go anywhere for sure...Korea again the opposite since non-tourist places are the worst in Korea for defacto or even dejure discrimination. Both Korea and Thailand have that circle of nationalism, but the way they view those outside of that circle is different.... |
Thais don't understand why the go go scene interests foreigners. They also don't consider all those Isaan girls working the scene attractive.
They have a far more extensive network of "entertainment" for themselves, ranging from the priciest massage and karaoke joints to the lowest of brothels (where foreigners are occasionally also not allowed).
One of the most amusing and popular myths among idiot Western moralizers about Thailand is that the "entertainment" scene was created for and by foreigners.
btw.. saw an ad in the BKK post for an accountant for the Brazilian Embassy. Sounds very prestigious (and probably is).. requirements? accounting skills/background and minimally a working knowledge of Portuguese (fluency preferred). Offered salary? 30K baht a month (1000 USD) Many bargirls beat that salary working far less hours and at least occassionally having a hell of lot more fun. |
You're right, one of my former university students in Thailand actually wrote a paper stating that only 10% of the sex trade there is geared toward foreigners... It's been that way for hundreds of years. Thailand has a strange and interesting entertainment sector to say the least. Someone very close to me -- Thai-- used to work for an American company as an accounting analyst... her salary: 38,000 baht per month. Same position in the same company back in the US: 80,000$ a year. Hmm, about the bar girls having fun, I've heard they get worn out pretty fast doing that line of work. And to make that much, they have to turn at least 6 or 7 tricks per week... |
that's what happens when you don't have Christian, Jewish or Muslim or Hindu moralizers running around the country and changing secular laws into quasi religious ones.
Buddhism is a great religion. Perhaps the only one that has far more positive qualities than negative.
you're right how a girl can get worn out/worn down in that line of work, but they do that mostly by choice.. the spend the money they make on clothes, hair, partying.. and the circle repeats itself.
However, the higher end girls command more attention, more money and many of them are able to fool foreigners into sending them money on a regular basis. I met one girl a while back who was receiving nearly a 1000 Euro a month for about 2 years.. from her Dutch "boyfriend". (she wasn't a bargirl btw, but the after hours club circuit partygirl)
(and fascinatingly enough she wasn't a stunner at all. Somewhat plain looking, in her 30's though looked upper 20's.. but quite intelligent, street smart, well spoken and spoke excellent English that would put 95% of Koreans to shame)
THOSE are the girls who can cash in with some luck and basically "work" 10-12 nights a month to match that honest Portuguese speaking accountant's salary. Of course the "work" consists of drinking, dancing and then screwing. Many of their customers are younger guys in their 20's and 30's. They are a major clientele in that circuit.
It's a "tough job" but someone has to do it. There is certainly no shortage of Thai girls more than happy to. the going long time rate on that cirucit is 2K baht. Many girls will make more.
even at 2K baht, that's 15 "working nights" a month.
I'd bet considering tips, higher payouts, etc it'd close to 10. |
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McGenghis
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Gangneung
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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One of my favorite hanmun characters is �waegukin�. Very pretty and easy to learn. I wrote it on a matching hat I had one time when I walked across the country with 200 Koreans (also wearing hats). People kept asking me if I knew what it meant.
Being a waegukin is your lot here. Sometimes it has its perks, and sometimes you might have to find another jimjjilbang. Everytime I am stymied by the waegukin card (which is quite rare) I think about all of the other times I have been given license to pursue my unorthodox interests simply because I am an "outside country person". |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course... |
And by interesting, you mean "entertaining or otherwise engaging"
And by made up stories, you mean things that didn't happen right?
And by made up, you mean "not true"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)
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sigh...
No by interesting i mean interesting and peferable founded on truth and backed up by something....
As for the rest, read up on this board buddy, very often the fiction being posted here is pretty spectacular. What's more amusing is how many are all too eager to bite and swallow the bait hook, line and sinker.... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course... |
OK, here's a real one: the water pipes in our apartment froze last week. Among other things, we can't take showers. We tried to go to a local jimjibang to take a shower. We were turned away because we are waygookin... (we just found another place that did allow waygookin, however). |
Thats sad and annoying for you. Glad you found another place however and I hope your pipes start working soon.
That jimjilbang just lost customers, the other one gained customers. The owner of the first place seems like a bigot, the owner of the other place seems like your average everyday Mr Kim who welcomes business in his establishment. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: |
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My bill in the retaurant today was marked 'weigukin".  |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course... |
OK, here's a real one: the water pipes in our apartment froze last week. Among other things, we can't take showers. We tried to go to a local jimjibang to take a shower. We were turned away because we are waygookin... (we just found another place that did allow waygookin, however). |
Thats sad and annoying for you. Glad you found another place however and I hope your pipes start working soon.
That jimjilbang just lost customers, the other one gained customers. The owner of the first place seems like a bigot, the owner of the other place seems like your average everyday Mr Kim who welcomes business in his establishment. |
The pipes, and that kind of thing, are one aspect of life in Korea that probably has little to do with xenophobia... but yeah, still annoying. Sure, there are some people here who are less xeno and some who are more and still others who are more but need the business and profit. The overall level of xenophobia defined by "us" vs "them" in Korea is a factor of living here you can't deny, though. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| chachee99 wrote: |
| I have no problems being called a foreigner or waegook in. However, I have a problem when it is used against me such as, " You can't ..... because you're a foreigner." |
Examples of this actually happening would be interesting.
By examples I mean real occurences, not made up stories of course... |
OK, here's a real one: the water pipes in our apartment froze last week. Among other things, we can't take showers. We tried to go to a local jimjibang to take a shower. We were turned away because we are waygookin... (we just found another place that did allow waygookin, however). |
Thats sad and annoying for you. Glad you found another place however and I hope your pipes start working soon.
That jimjilbang just lost customers, the other one gained customers. The owner of the first place seems like a bigot, the owner of the other place seems like your average everyday Mr Kim who welcomes business in his establishment. |
The pipes, and that kind of thing, are one aspect of life in Korea that probably has little to do with xenophobia... but yeah, still annoying. Sure, there are some people here who are less xeno and some who are more and still others who are more but need the business and profit. The overall level of xenophobia defined by "us" vs "them" in Korea is a factor of living here you can't deny, though. |
This us vs them thing is highly variable. It is also dependent on many factors, including our own attitudes.
Sure there are some xeno pricks out there in K-land. Sure that type of person gets all the attention because their behavior is so damn ugly and annoying. In my experience, for every such bigot-xeno tard, there are 10-15 regular folks who are not xeno and you treated me normally.
Experiences will differ based on many things of course.
I am just not big on sweeping conclusions!
Take care and good luck with your pipes...hope these pipes are not freezing on you out of racism! Or perhaps the super took off the insulation on your pipes only to "show that darn wayguk he don't belong here' |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
The pipes, and that kind of thing, are one aspect of life in Korea that probably has little to do with xenophobia... but yeah, still annoying. Sure, there are some people here who are less xeno and some who are more and still others who are more but need the business and profit. The overall level of xenophobia defined by "us" vs "them" in Korea is a factor of living here you can't deny, though. |
Yes, I'm absolutely stunned how many people with that kind of mentality manage to find their way out of their own country over here.
I've seen far more "us" vs "them" mentality displayed here by people who would tell you all day what an exceptional specimen of a human being they are then I encounter in my daily life in Korea. |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I think the translation of wae-gook-in should be updated to white, non-Korean. In my experience, that is what it means. Other Asians would be called "insert country here" saram.
I'm in Toronto now. Every time I'm around Koreans who refer to me as wae-gook-in, I make the joke, in Korean, that this is Canada and they are the wae-gook-in. They laugh and agree, usually.
Someone mentioned that it is offensive because Koreans apologize when caught saying it. I think that they are embarrassed because they got caught talking about you in front of your face!
A word can't be offensive. It is a sound that comes from someone's mouth. It's our interpretation and programmed response that creates that feeling. If you feel like you aren't an outsider and someone calls you wae-gook-in, you will feel slighted.
I am an outsider. I don't want to be subjected to the BS that goes along with being a part of the Korean system. Most wae-gook-ins who get really offended by the term don't do the things you need to do to be called something else:
picking up the bill when out with younger people
keeping their mouth shut about things like being called a wae-gook-in by someone in a higher position
being so committed to their company that it borders on insanity
buying overpriced products because they're Korean |
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