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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| With Gaza unemployment estimated by the United Nations at more than 40 percent |
The UN? lol. Another anti-semitic hate group.
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Right. Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, is publishing completely fake stats, fabricated by anti-semites, in order to dupe their mostly Israeli readership. And the readership just falls for it.
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January 1-15th 2009: Israel's incursion into Gaza kills 929 Palestinians
Number of global media reports: 2896
January 1-15th 2009: LRA kills 865 unarmed civilians.
Number of global media reports: 20
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Got any stats on how much money the Lord's Resistance Army is getting from the US government? |
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Haaretz is generally more legit than Junior's numbers. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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January 1-15th 2009: Israel's incursion into Gaza kills 929 Palestinians
Number of global media reports: 2896
January 1-15th 2009: LRA kills 865 unarmed civilians.
Number of global media reports: 20
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Got any stats on how much money the Lord's Resistance Army is getting from the US government? |
Are you implying that if the United States stopped providing military aid to Israel, the global media would stop its aggressive, atypical scrutiny of the nation in question? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you implying that if the United States stopped providing military aid to Israel, the global media would stop its aggressive, atypical scrutiny of the nation in question? |
We should give it a try and find out. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
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| Are you implying that if the United States stopped providing military aid to Israel, the global media would stop its aggressive, atypical scrutiny of the nation in question? |
We should give it a try and find out. |
Supporting Korea costs the US taxpayer $42 billion per year.
http://www.freekorea.us/2007/09/24/some-usfk-stats-and-history/
Supporting Israel costs the US $3 billion a year.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
Why don't you withdraw from Korea first? ..If saving costs is the most important thing to you.
Or would you miss the anti-american protests too much. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| BoholDiver wrote: |
| I am anti-suffering. Anti-control, and pro-freedom. |
Why then do you support a muslim society that kills women for flirting and does not allow them out of the house without a male escort?
The Palestinian population has mushroomed since the establishment of Israel. You want to eliminate their beneficiary?
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| at the cost of...um...80% of their land. |
The Jews are the original inhabitants of the land.
On what basis do you justify your occupation of North America? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Yes. And let's suppose that a reunified Korea gets into a war with three of its neighbours, and then after the war decides to keep some of the territory it grabbed, moving a bunch of gun-toting adjosshis from LA's Koreatown onto settlements, in order to do battle with the displaced inhabitants, leading to a war that goes on for 40 years, with no end in sight.
Hands up all Dave's posters who want their homeland's government to fund this venture. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Yes. And let's suppose that a reunified Korea gets into a war with three of its neighbours, and then after the war decides to keep some of the territory it grabbed, moving a bunch of gun-toting adjosshis from LA's Koreatown onto settlements, in order to do battle with the displaced inhabitants, leading to a war that goes on for 40 years, with no end in sight.
Hands up all Dave's posters who want their homeland's government to fund this venture. |
You seem to be implying that Israel was the belligerent actor in those wars, which isn't really fair. Settlements are ripe for criticism, however, particularly given that they probably work against Israel in the long-term. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| You seem to be implying that Israel was the belligerent actor in those wars, which isn't really fair. |
I've read arguments on both sides about who was the belligerent in the 1967 War, and I'm not really going to get into that now.
Suffice to say, even if the Israelis were the aggrieved party in 1967, I don't think the post-67 policy of occupying the land and moving in settlers can be justified.
We can probably all agree that Nazi Germany was the belligerent against Russia during World War II. But if Russia's postwar policy had been, in addition to forming the Warsaw Pact, moving heavily armed Russian settlers onto land in Poland and East Germany, kicking the indigenous inhabitants off their land, and fighting an ongoing war against Polish and German rebels, well, not only do I think we'd oppose that, we would certainly think that the Russians, and the Russians alone, should be the ones funding it. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| You seem to be implying that Israel was the belligerent actor in those wars, which isn't really fair. |
I've read arguments on both sides about who was the belligerent in the 1967 War, and I'm not really going to get into that now.
Suffice to say, even if the Israelis were the aggrieved party in 1967, I don't think the post-67 policy of occupying the land and moving in settlers can be justified.
We can probably all agree that Nazi Germany was the belligerent against Russia during World War II. But if Russia's postwar policy had been, in addition to forming the Warsaw Pact, moving heavily armed Russian settlers onto land in Poland and East Germany, kicking the indigenous inhabitants off their land, and fighting an ongoing war against Polish and German rebels, well, not only do I think we'd oppose that, we would certainly think that the Russians, and the Russians alone, should be the ones funding it. |
...which my post touches on. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| ...which my post touches on. |
Yes, I think we're probably in the same ballpark of opinion here. |
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Italy37612
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
The UN? lol. Another anti-semitic hate group. |
You have GOT to be kidding? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Italy37612 wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
The UN? lol. Another anti-semitic hate group. |
You have GOT to be kidding? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! |
I'll answer your question when the anti-semites on here actually step up and answer some of mine.
Instead of endlessly evading the issues and changing topic. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
I'll answer your question when the anti-semites on here actually step up and answer some of mine.
Instead of endlessly evading the issues and changing topic. |
You're kinda rabid about this, huh?
Also, I'm not sure I'm seeing the anti-semitism. Can you give an example so we know what you're talking about? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior, by your standards most of my Jewish friends are anti-semites. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Italy37612 wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
The UN? lol. Another anti-semitic hate group. |
You have GOT to be kidding? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! |
It's impossible to deny that Israel regularly gets the short end of the stick when it comes to the ineffectual and unrealistic entity that is the United Nations. Israel is scrutinized more deeply than any other nation, and condemned anytime it's found even remotely lacking, a standard no other nation in the world is held to. In the last 30 years, there have been 4 emergency special sessions in the UN. Israel has been the focus of three of them (with the fourth being South Africa). This is despite various violent conflicts in the rest of the world in that time frame.
The United Nations has generally condemned racism and sexism. None the less, until fairly recently not only did it not condemn anti-semitism, but it actually asserted that Zionism -- which at its core is simply the notion that the Jewish people deserve a homeland of their own -- was racism. For other races, a positive group identity is protected and lashing out against that group identity in-and-of itself is condemned. For Jews, a positive group identity was condemned and lashing out against that group identity in-and-of itself was tolerated. This was the United Nations position until 1993, when on United States pressure the Human Rights Condition finally added anti-semitism to its list. It took over 40 years of trying for that simple thing to be accomplished. Let's look at what the resolution would have looked like without antisemitism included:
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| The Commission requests the special rapporteur to examine according to his mandate incidents of contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, any form of discrimination against Blacks, Arabs and Muslims, xenophobia, anti-semitism, and related intolerance as well as governmental measures to overcome them, and to report on these matters to the Commission at its fifty-first session. |
So discrimination against Arabs in general and Muslims specifically wasn't controversial, but getting Jews -- probably one of the most persecuted groups in human history -- onto that list took a real fight. The structure of the United Nations allows Muslim Arab nations to use it as a soap box upon which to stand and demonize Israel again and again and again, and most of the rest of the world has proved all too willing to allow them to go ahead with it. It's a total kangaroo court, where the nations which are both some of the greatest human rights abusers in the world and the most prone to discrimination have an inordinate amount of sway when it comes to the topics of human rights and discrimination.
Last edited by Fox on Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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