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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| You know, I was beginning to think that political correctness had run its course until I came across this story from Minnesota Public Radio. There are still some intolerant intellectuals who just want us all to have a conversation whether we like it or not. I know I posted it before, and you should be careful because listening to the multicultural twit really blew the wind out of my sails. |
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blobbo
Joined: 08 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Who is David Camerson?
You know 'multi culturalism' started with the various European Empires exporting their religions and ways of life worldwide? Funny how recent immigrants to Europe at taking the brunt of the blame.  |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| blobbo wrote: |
Who is David Camerson?
You know 'multi culturalism' started with the various European Empires exporting their religions and ways of life worldwide? Funny how recent immigrants to Europe at taking the brunt of the blame. |
I thought European empires maliciously assimilated people into their own culture, which is kind of the opposite of multiculturalism... The problem is the practice of encouraging people to join "us" without encouraging them to become "one of us". |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| The problem is the practice of encouraging people to join "us" without encouraging them to become "one of us". |
And I would submit that in come cases (as it stands today) any amount of encouragement isn't likely to pan out well, anyway. |
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:17 am Post subject: |
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This may be of some relevance to Canadians.
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With the exception of Britain, the United States, the Dutch and the Scandinavian states, Canada is the oldest liberal democracy in the world. The careful efforts of men like Baldwin, Lafontaine, Macdonald, Brown and Laurier are half forgotten and taken completely for granted today. However, it is in our political accomplishments, and the great wealth and long peace they have engendered, that immigrants needs to be instructed. It matters little how they dress, eat or pray, so long as they speak either of our main languages and understand our political and legal customs.
In pre-multicultural Canada the teaching of, and expectation of adherence to, these values was taken as a matter of course. The central tenet of multiculturalism, not as it is commonly understood, but in its original intellectual meaning, is that all cultural values are relative. It is immoral - indeed bigoted - to argue that parliamentary democracy and the common law are superior to a witch doctor and a tribal council. That the former has produced a first class society, whose citizenship is keenly sought, and the latter has not evolved in centuries, is an irrelevant consideration.
Even if most Canadians do not understand the nature of the multiculturalism con, which has ruthlessly exploited their benevolence, they feel threatened by it. It is, however, little more than an emotional objection. From time to time the fear becomes anger, and is misdirected at the immigrants themselves, not the academics, journalists and politicians that have advanced it for going on two generations. |
Shouldn't we consider what makes a first class society?
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2011/01/cult-of-multicult.html |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Madigan wrote: |
| You know, I was beginning to think that political correctness had run its course until I came across this story from Minnesota Public Radio. There are still some intolerant intellectuals who just want us all to have a conversation whether we like it or not. I know I posted it before, and you should be careful because listening to the multicultural twit really blew the wind out of my sails. |
I don't see where the article has anything to do with political correctness. You seem to be the intolerant non-intellectual who refuses to accept the fact that some people may actually be interested in understanding Islamic law. Apparently you would prefer to condemn Islamic Law without even knowing what it is. The Fact is that we live in a multicultural world and a multicultural America. Whether that is good or bad that is the fact. If you would prefer to remain ignorant of other cultures, that is your choice. I don't see anything wrong with a university offering classes in a subject that people wish to study. It seems rather intolerant of you to expect everyone to be as ignorant of other cultures as you wish to be. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| Madigan wrote: |
| You know, I was beginning to think that political correctness had run its course until I came across this story from Minnesota Public Radio. There are still some intolerant intellectuals who just want us all to have a conversation whether we like it or not. I know I posted it before, and you should be careful because listening to the multicultural twit really blew the wind out of my sails. |
I don't see where the article has anything to do with political correctness. You seem to be the intolerant non-intellectual who refuses to accept the fact that some people may actually be interested in understanding Islamic law. Apparently you would prefer to condemn Islamic Law without even knowing what it is. The Fact is that we live in a multicultural world and a multicultural America. Whether that is good or bad that is the fact. If you would prefer to remain ignorant of other cultures, that is your choice. I don't see anything wrong with a university offering classes in a subject that people wish to study. It seems rather intolerant of you to expect everyone to be as ignorant of other cultures as you wish to be. |
Yeah, so there is an Islamic law program at the university of minnesota- what's the problem? Law schools are money makers for universities and this might be a good recruitment tool. they already have a professor teaching islamic law there, so it isn't like they're taking on some massive new expenditure anyway. |
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| You're probably right that the classes would be enticing to some people and I don't doubt that it may be nothing more than a marketing gimmick. The problem is that law schools are supposed to teach people to become lawyers and prepare them for the bar. The study of Islamic Law does nothing towards those ends. Like you said, there are classes at the UofM that teach Islamic Law, and they are best left to the college of LAS. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Madigan wrote: |
| You're probably right that the classes would be enticing to some people and I don't doubt that it may be nothing more than a marketing gimmick. The problem is that law schools are supposed to teach people to become lawyers and prepare them for the bar. The study of Islamic Law does nothing towards those ends. Like you said, there are classes at the UofM that teach Islamic Law, and they are best left to the college of LAS. |
To an extent. Law school has a handful of electives and perspective courses. At mine, there's international (public) law, EU law, law & literature, gay law (I forgot the official name of the course), and other law courses focused on discrete and insular minorities. A class on Islamic Law alone presents little harm and some prospect of benefit, especially at an institution where only a dozen people will sign up for it, but the next classroom over on Negotiable Instruments (Payment Law) will have 70 students, because its a standard bar course.
What really concerns me is undergraduate education. Here's a tip for those of you planning to go to law school: either study in the sciences, mathematics, or study philosophy. I would personally recommend mathematics for best fit (but you might enjoy philosophy/sciences more). If you focus on Islamic Studies, it is a less rigorous preparation for the logic and reading comprehension at which law students must excel. But then again, that's a symptom of the poverty of many state school so-called liberal arts programs (the so-called 'social sciences'), and less an indictment of the potential of a humanities study historically.
| jaykimf wrote: |
| The Fact is that we live in a multicultural world and a multicultural America. |
America is not multicultural. There is a racial divide (between black and white, and yes, really only those two) and then there are immigrants. But the immigrants are expected to assimilate, and the only immigrants who come here and try to get away with speaking their native language are those speaking Spanish. But America has one cohesive culture with many subcultures (like just about any other countries). We are not Canada. Multiethnic melting pot DOES NOT EQUAL multicultural. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, in my original post I meant to write David Cameron, the PM of the Uk. Typos can be very annoying.
I think we can all acknowledge that NA and Europe are multicultural in that many different cultures live there. What Cameron is saying is that newcomers must be included in broad culture of Britain and must accept essential British values.
The west has not done this to any great extent out of political correctness or lack of faith in these values. All too often we have not been forceful enough in advocating western values, which have, afterall, created the most benificent society the world has ever known.
Rather, out of fear of being called racist, we have taken the position that all cultures are 'equal.' It is a good thing, IMO, that we are moving away from these notions. As one writer said, we are ceasing to drink the Multi-culti Kool Aid. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Madigan wrote: |
| You're probably right that the classes would be enticing to some people and I don't doubt that it may be nothing more than a marketing gimmick. The problem is that law schools are supposed to teach people to become lawyers and prepare them for the bar. The study of Islamic Law does nothing towards those ends. Like you said, there are classes at the UofM that teach Islamic Law, and they are best left to the college of LAS. |
Many lawyers actually practice in the context of international law where a knowledge of foreign legal systems is essential.
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| University of Minnesota law students are encouraged to study abroad. Studying abroad instills a combination of theory and practice by enabling students to study a foreign legal system while living in that country at the same time. It allows students to experience what they are learning in the classroom. It further broadens students� perspectives by training them to approach other legal systems and legal subjects from a non-U.S. perspective. The Law School further encourages students to study abroad because it enables them to take courses not regularly offered at the Law School. |
http://www.law.umn.edu/prospective/study-abroad.html
You're whining about political correctness because you think Islamic law should not be taught in the law school but rather in the college of LAS?
Truly ignorant. |
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| To an extent. Law school has a handful of electives and perspective courses. At mine, there's international (public) law, EU law, law & literature, gay law (I forgot the official name of the course), and other law courses focused on discrete and insular minorities. A class on Islamic Law alone presents little harm and some prospect of benefit, especially at an institution where only a dozen people will sign up for it, but the next classroom over on Negotiable Instruments (Payment Law) will have 70 students, because its a standard bar course. |
Yeah, I see what you are saying. Now that I think of it, it was the tone in that woman's voice that upset me more than anything else. If she had just said, "Look, our students have a broad range of interests and we are just trying to accommodate them by offering this course" then most people would have just shrugged. However, she put it in confrontational terms by pretty much saying, "if you don't like it, then too bad." Not a very good way to conduct public relations in my opinion. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Madigan wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| To an extent. Law school has a handful of electives and perspective courses. At mine, there's international (public) law, EU law, law & literature, gay law (I forgot the official name of the course), and other law courses focused on discrete and insular minorities. A class on Islamic Law alone presents little harm and some prospect of benefit, especially at an institution where only a dozen people will sign up for it, but the next classroom over on Negotiable Instruments (Payment Law) will have 70 students, because its a standard bar course. |
Yeah, I see what you are saying. Now that I think of it, it was the tone in that woman's voice that upset me more than anything else. If she had just said, "Look, our students have a broad range of interests and we are just trying to accommodate them by offering this course" then most people would have just shrugged. However, she put it in confrontational terms by pretty much saying, "if you don't like it, then too bad." Not a very good way to conduct public relations in my opinion. |
There was nothing confrontational in what she said. Keep on backpedaling. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| What Cameron is saying is that newcomers must be included in broad culture of Britain and must accept essential British values.. |
Everyone knows he was basically referring only to muslims.
Everyone else has no problem assimilating. |
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