| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Stalin84
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Haebangchon, Seoul
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: Need to learn grammar |
 |
|
I need to learn intermediate to advanced grammar in a hurry. I've been teaching in Korea for quite a few years but have never needed to teach grammar until now, so my grammar is both rusty and in a lot of cases, non-existent (kids aren't taught grammar in school in Canada).
Anyway, what is a good website for learning grammar relatively quickly? I'm a fast learner so it shouldn't be a problem. Right now when students ask me how to use a transitive verb my eyes just glaze over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i dunno wha yoo talkin bout bern.
google lit bern.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I made something for that. I know how often new teachers have to get ontop of grammar and feel like they have some control/understanding.
Lots there to help. I organized the freely available Azar presentations and they should get you through everything. Scroll down the page to get to them. Also look at the other presentations.
http://eflclassroom.ning.com/page/grammar-1
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mellow-d
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm from New Brunswick and I was taught a lot of grammar. I remember having to take grammar program that lasted from grade 4-grade 5 and then in junior high, English was pretty much all grammar based. It is really hard to remember all the rules so many years later, though. Maybe you could buy yourself a TOEFL book with grammar rules in it and test yourself. Then see if you could explain the answers to someone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stalin,
Don't worry about "learning grammar". It's a misconception that many (including me in the past) have about teaching English.
What you do have to know is the grammar that you are going to teach for a specific class. In essence, you research it as you go.
An excellent book to help you with this is "Practical English Usage" by Michael Swan. Another one that is supposed to excellent as well is "Teaching English Grammar" by Jim Scrivener.
Swan's book very clearly demonstrates function, concept and form. Just look up the particular grammar point you are going to teach that day, make sure you are up on:
1) form - how is it created (including negatives and question forms)
2) function and concept - when is it used and what for, and how can you explain the concept simply to your students? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stalin84
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Haebangchon, Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mellow-d wrote: |
| I'm from New Brunswick and I was taught a lot of grammar. |
It might've been more in my case, though I heard it was the same way for a lot of people. I went an elementary school that was not funded or recognized by the province (it was volunteer run) so we weren't exactly on a curriculum. When we went to JHS, they assumed we already knew grammar and that was that. Just like how we never did Shakespeare in school and when we got to university, our English Lit. profs all assumed we read it all :S
| Quote: |
1) form - how is it created (including negatives and question forms)
2) function and concept - when is it used and what for, and how can you explain the concept simply to your students? |
I understand all relevant grammar and in the past I've ignored the terminology and just taught the idea as well as how to use it. However my current job wants me to teach grammatical terminology. When I peer into other teacher's classes they've got the white board full of complex grammar terms. When I get lesson reports from other teachers, it's often a series of abbreviated grammatical terms (things the student needs to work on) and to be honest, I can understand very little of it.
I get the feeling I'm going to get in trouble job-wise if I don't start using a lot of grammatical terms in my classes. I already understand it, I just need the names for it. A few of my students also seem disappointed that I take the conversational approach to English over the mechanical/grammatical approach. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brauggi
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Stalin, if you don't mind my asking, what's your student demographic? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stalin84 wrote: |
| mellow-d wrote: |
| I'm from New Brunswick and I was taught a lot of grammar. |
It might've been more in my case, though I heard it was the same way for a lot of people. I went an elementary school that was not funded or recognized by the province (it was volunteer run) so we weren't exactly on a curriculum. When we went to JHS, they assumed we already knew grammar and that was that. Just like how we never did Shakespeare in school and when we got to university, our English Lit. profs all assumed we read it all :S
| Quote: |
1) form - how is it created (including negatives and question forms)
2) function and concept - when is it used and what for, and how can you explain the concept simply to your students? |
I understand all relevant grammar and in the past I've ignored the terminology and just taught the idea as well as how to use it. However my current job wants me to teach grammatical terminology. When I peer into other teacher's classes they've got the white board full of complex grammar terms. When I get lesson reports from other teachers, it's often a series of abbreviated grammatical terms (things the student needs to work on) and to be honest, I can understand very little of it.
I get the feeling I'm going to get in trouble job-wise if I don't start using a lot of grammatical terms in my classes. I already understand it, I just need the names for it. A few of my students also seem disappointed that I take the conversational approach to English over the mechanical/grammatical approach. |
Then the Swan book is for you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Don't worry about "learning grammar". It's a misconception that many (including me in the past) have about teaching English.
What you do have to know is the grammar that you are going to teach for a specific class. In essence, you research it as you go.
|
This is true in some instances but it depends on the students. That's why the question brauggi asked is important. You might be able to get away with it with kids or Uni students but adults will soon rumble you if there's one inquisitive student in the class who asks a lot of questions. You can keep saying it's not relevant or too advanced for them so many times before they'll realise you don't have the answers and the complaints will start pouring in. Koreans are not stupid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Don't worry about "learning grammar". It's a misconception that many (including me in the past) have about teaching English.
What you do have to know is the grammar that you are going to teach for a specific class. In essence, you research it as you go.
|
This is true in some instances but it depends on the students. That's why the question brauggi asked is important. You might be able to get away with it with kids or Uni students but adults will soon rumble you if there's one inquisitive student in the class who asks a lot of questions. You can keep saying it's not relevant or too advanced for them so many times before they'll realise you don't have the answers and the complaints will start pouring in. Koreans are not stupid. |
No, the complaints won't start pouring in. Trust me. If you have a well-planned lesson, stay on topic, and give the students something of value to take home from each lesson, they won't complain.
"That's not part of today's lesson. We'll cover it later, or you can meet me in my office to discuss it. Moving on..."
It is YOUR class. Don't let a student hijack your lesson. In my experience, "those" students are not often popular with the other students anyway. They will secretly be glad when you shut down the hijacker.
The other point to consider is logistics. It's not about the instructor "saving face" or dodging a question. I have a lesson to teach, and lesson aims to achieve. I can't have students derailing that.
If you make sure you research your grammar point thoroughly and set tasks appropriate to the grammar point, you'll be fine. It is not often that you will teach the simple past (for example) and get a question about the second conditional. You might get a question about the difference between "...went to..." and "...have been to...", but if you've done your prep, you'll be able to answer it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stalin84
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Haebangchon, Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| brauggi wrote: |
| Stalin, if you don't mind my asking, what's your student demographic? |
I teach adults (ages 16 to 60 pretty much). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: Stalin 84 |
|
|
Amazing...and depressing(at least if one thinks of the quality of EFL "teachers" in E. Asia these days): this same OP scholar, who takes the moniker of perhaps history's most genocidal maniac, has the temerity to admit that he knows Richard's slang-shortened name about grammar!
Does being an English-language grammarian guarantee that you'll be a crackerjack EFL teacher? Nope. But should you be a grammarian in order to have the said position? You bet! If you can't tell a prepositional phrase from a phrasal verb, you have no business being in this racket.
Mind you, Uncle Joe had no qualms telling all & sundry about how the JET Programme was crapola...even though he never served on JET(and never will). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grammar is way too much of an issue here. They need to focus on hoping their gobs and bloody well speaking. They've covered the mechanics of grammar in school and for some university. Adults now need to put the mechanics into practice and put down their grammar books along with their god awful not untrustworthy crappy dictionaries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oldtrafford wrote: |
| Grammar is way too much of an issue here. They need to focus on hoping their gobs and bloody well speaking. They've covered the mechanics of grammar in school and for some university. Adults now need to put the mechanics into practice and put down their grammar books along with their god awful not untrustworthy crappy dictionaries. |
That's not quite how I would've said it, but a lot of this is true.
One thing the OP could try is to assign a task prior to teaching the grammar to assess whether or not the students already know the grammar. This will let him know how detailed his grammar lesson needs to be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stalin84
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Haebangchon, Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Stalin 84 |
|
|
| Mosley wrote: |
Amazing...and depressing(at least if one thinks of the quality of EFL "teachers" in E. Asia these days): this same OP scholar, who takes the moniker of perhaps history's most genocidal maniac, has the temerity to admit that he knows Richard's slang-shortened name about grammar!
Does being an English-language grammarian guarantee that you'll be a crackerjack EFL teacher? Nope. But should you be a grammarian in order to have the said position? You bet! If you can't tell a prepositional phrase from a phrasal verb, you have no business being in this racket.
Mind you, Uncle Joe had no qualms telling all & sundry about how the JET Programme was crapola...even though he never served on JET(and never will). |
Shut up, Mosley. You sound like a broken record. We've heard it all before in your other thread. You put JET on a pedestal despite JET teachers being nothing more than glorified tape recorders and token white people. You also write like a 10th grader that is trying to impress their teacher. It gets old faster than the guy who keeps raising his hand to share his 'knowledge' in a 101 Philosophy course.
Most English teachers do not teach grammar. We're native speakers, our job is to teach speaking. The students can learn grammar in their own language. In every other job I've had over here I've been told to *not* teach grammar. Also, I do know some grammar. I just don't know advanced grammar.
I only need to learn advanced grammar because it is actually important when teaching adults.
I already explained why my name is Stalin to you, quit bringing it up. Go away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
