|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: Patriot Act Extension Initially Fails in the House ... |
 |
|
... but will likely pass in the end.
| Quote: |
The House on Tuesday night failed to approve legislation to extend surveillance authorities in the Patriot Act.
In a 277-148 vote, the House fell just seven votes short of the two-thirds majority of voting members necessary to move the bill under suspension of the rules.
More than two dozen Republicans bucked their leadership in the vote, by far the biggest defection for the House GOP since it took over the lower chamber. Until tonight's vote, Republicans voted together in all but two votes this year, and in those two votes, only one Republican voted with Democrats.
Republicans voting against the bill were Reps. Justin Amash (Mich.), Roscoe Bartlett (Md.), Rob Bishop (Utah), Paul Broun (Ga.), John Campbell (Calif.), John Duncan (Tenn.), Mike Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Tom Graves (Ga.), Dean Heller (Nev.), Randy Hultgren (Ill.), Tim Johnson (Ill.), Walter Jones (N.C.), Jack Kingston (Ga.), Raul Labrador (Idaho), Connie Mack (Fla.), Kenny Marchant (Texas), Tom McClintock (Calif.), Ron Paul (Texas), Denny Rehberg (Mont.), Phil Roe (Tenn.), Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.), Bobby Schilling (Ill.), David Schweikert (Ariz.), Rob Woodall (Ga.), and Don Young (Alaska).
Among the Democrats, 67 voted with Republicans, and nearly twice that much, 122, voted against the GOP.
...
These authorities expire on February 28, which means the House may have to take up the measure quickly under a rule, which would make for a slower process but would also allow it to pass with a simple majority. Clay said he expects Republicans to take this route.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/kucinich-challenges-tea-party-stand-civil-liberties/
Seems the tea party doesn't give a damn about the common man, after all |
According to the article I posted at the top of this thread, 12 Republicans actually did do exactly what he called for. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bush's reelection after the passage of the initial Patriot Act pretty much killed the last smidgen of faith I had in US politics. If this fails I might start caring again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/kucinich-challenges-tea-party-stand-civil-liberties/
Seems the tea party doesn't give a damn about the common man, after all |
According to the article I posted at the top of this thread, 12 Republicans actually did do exactly what he called for. |
In equal fairness, though, it's probably worth pointing out that the House Tea Party Caucus has 52 members, meaning most of them did actually vote to extend. So I guess it's less a case of "Tea Party standing up for liberty," and more a case of, "Some people who were incidentally elected with Tea Party support happen to also support liberty." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I know it's only been a month, but so far Boehner is starting out to be a few light beams less than stellar as Speaker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Three month extension passes on Senate floor by large margin.
| Quote: |
| Those voting against the extension Tuesday included Republican Sens. Mike Lee (Utah) and Paul; Democratic Sens. Jon Tester (Mont.), Sherrod Brown (Ohio), Max Baucus (Mont.), Tom Harkin (Iowa), Tom Udall (N.M.), Jeff Merkley (Ore.), Ron Wyden (Ore.), Frank Lautenberg (N.J.) and Patty Murray (Wash.); and Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.). |
This list is far shorter than it should have been. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
^ Ours is no longer a representative democracy. How many times have we seen it now that the populace takes an overwhelming position while their (mis-)representatives vote the other way? I mean, how many citizen groups are out there urging to extend the PATRIOT Act? None that I know of, while there are a bunch opposing it.
Fox, you are right that that list is way shorter than it should be. How can the disconnect between the people and those in Congress be so great? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
Three month extension passes on Senate floor by large margin.
| Quote: |
| Those voting against the extension Tuesday included Republican Sens. Mike Lee (Utah) and Paul; Democratic Sens. Jon Tester (Mont.), Sherrod Brown (Ohio), Max Baucus (Mont.), Tom Harkin (Iowa), Tom Udall (N.M.), Jeff Merkley (Ore.), Ron Wyden (Ore.), Frank Lautenberg (N.J.) and Patty Murray (Wash.); and Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.). |
This list is far shorter than it should have been. |
Freaking Feinstein. After she voted in favor of the iraq resolution in 2003, I wrote a letter to her congratulating her on losing my vote for the rest of my life. Her support of this Act just reinforces my decision. Unfortunately I am a very small minority (and also no longer a voter in CA).
I'm surprised her peer Barbara Boxer didn't vote against it though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/kucinich-challenges-tea-party-stand-civil-liberties/
Seems the tea party doesn't give a damn about the common man, after all |
Peculiar hat-wearing Mecca-praying muslims, at whom the Patriot Act is primarily aimed, are hardly the USA's "common man". Which is precisely why the Patriot Act furtively survives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kimbop wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/kucinich-challenges-tea-party-stand-civil-liberties/
Seems the tea party doesn't give a damn about the common man, after all |
Peculiar hat-wearing Mecca-praying muslims, at whom the Patriot Act is primarily aimed, are hardly the USA's "common man". Which is precisely why the Patriot Act furtively survives. |
Your cowardly trollish post has a whiff of sarcasm 
Should good God-fearing little boys and girls be subject to warrantless wiretaps and body scans at the airport? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
Your cowardly trollish post has a whiff of sarcasm
Should good God-fearing little boys and girls be subject to warrantless wiretaps and body scans at the airport? |
That's lovely. We're on the same side: I, too, am against the Patriot Act and to a much larger extent muslim immigration. You must acknowledge that in a country too sanctimonious to ban muslim immigration, legislation is needed to control radical muslim madness within our borders. If you're a non-muslim, have no contact with Waziristani warlords or suspected homegrown insurgents, don't transfer money to hot zones in the ME, and don't call for the death of George W, then you have little to worry about, for these are the types of people who are being monitored. Unfortunately, white America could care less about the Patriot Act, while the media rejoices at brown-skinned muslims being arrested on tv. I'm not saying it's right - it just is.
btw: "Body scans at the airport" have nothing to do with the USA Patriot Act. You're confusing it with the Aviation and Transportation Security Act. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kimbop wrote: |
| If you're a non-muslim, have no contact with Waziristani warlords or suspected homegrown insurgents, don't transfer money to hot zones in the ME, and don't call for the death of George W, then you have little to worry about, for these are the types of people who are being monitored. |
Really?
How about this white 16-year-old boy?
or these:
Homeland Security Agents Visit Toy Store
| Quote: |
| So far as she knows, Pufferbelly Toys owner Stephanie Cox hasn't been passing any state secrets to sinister foreign governments, or violating obscure clauses in the Patriot Act. |
Terrorism panic goes too far at Area 51
| Quote: |
| Chuck Clark wasn't even home when law enforcement personnel assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force roared up to his rented trailer in tiny Rachel, Nev., the other day. He didn't know about the still-sealed search warrant until he returned from a road trip and found that his files, photos and computer had been seized. |
Secret Service Questions Students
| Quote: |
| Some teachers in Oakland are rallying behind two students who were interrogated by the Secret Service. That followed remarks the teenagers made about the President during a class discussion. The incident has many people angry. It's good to see the real terrorists are being hunted down. |
Boy investigated by FBI for researching paper on Chesapeake Bay Bridge
| Quote: |
| A 12-year-old kid at Boys' Latin researches a paper on the Bay Bridge, and suddenly the Joint Terrorist Task Force shows up in the headmaster's office. |
Patriot Act available against many types of criminals
| Quote: |
| Virtually unmentioned, however, is the fact that the Patriot Act extended the government's powers well beyond the terrorism arena. |
Using The Patriot Act To Target Patriots
| Quote: |
| The Patriot Act has been used to obtain search warrants against doctors and scientists who had been warning about the threat of bioterrorism in the U.S. |
There's a bunch more if you want. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Space Bar wrote: |
There's a bunch more if you want. |
I agree it's obviously flawed. But unfortunately these cases/stories are one in a million. You post some good examples bust also some very vague ones. Most of these people sued for damages and were awarded millions.
I'm not saying this Act is right. It's simply not an election issue. Unfortunately, James Cromitie's and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's faces plastered on Fox News and CNN reinforce the public's apathy about what the patriot act actually permits. I repeat: The USA Patriot Act survives because it's aimed at anti-American muslims who aim to destroy the west. Don't kill the messenger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Space Bar wrote: |
^ Ours is no longer a representative democracy. How many times have we seen it now that the populace takes an overwhelming position while their (mis-)representatives vote the other way? I mean, how many citizen groups are out there urging to extend the PATRIOT Act? None that I know of, while there are a bunch opposing it.
Fox, you are right that that list is way shorter than it should be. How can the disconnect between the people and those in Congress be so great? |
Only it isn't. Lovely fairy tale and all that but support for the Patriot Act has actually increased over time.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1893/poll-patriot-act-renewal
According to this survey in 2004 33% of Americans thought of it as a necessary tool. In Feb 2011 that has now risen to 42%.
While in 2004 39% thought it went too far that proportion has now fallen to 34%.
23% "didn't know".
Nevertheless it seems that a clear plurality support it. For sure there is no "overwhelming position" the other way.
(Interestingly while support has slightly decreased among Repubs it has significantly increased among Dems.)
Now before you attempt to paint me as a supporter of the Patriot Act I should point out that I am not American nor care whether you have it or scrap it. But let's stick to facts shall we? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
