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willteachforfood
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think that most of the ideas presented here are WELL beyond the scope of what the OP is looking for.
Additional subway lines costs in the hundreds of millions and even extended subway hours costs millions. Personally I am surprised that a city the size of Seoul doesn't have enough demand to keep the subway open, but it could be that in a cost/benefit analysis that they don't make enough money after 12 to make it worth their while....add into the mix that we're mostly talking about drunks that want to ride after midnight....this would require greater security on the trains and in the stations, more mess to clean up, and so on. Now, I like to drink sometimes too, and it sucks when I would prefer to ride the train than pay for a cab, but having society pay millions of dollars to keep the Party-Tube running all night would be silly. If a feasibility study shows that the trains would have enough riders to pay for operations until 1 or 2 am and the powers at be simply are putting their foot down because they are ajoshis, well, then this is a different scenario. For me, however, as much as I have no faith in Korean management and planning, do think that the subway hours have been thoroughly examined and that it has been determined that not enough riders would use the trains after midnight. Especially when you consider that 1/2 of those riders already DO pay for the 11 o'clock train....so opening later would mean that the system would not be operating under full efficiency from the 11-12 hour now as well.
If I had to choose 1 thing that would make Korea better that is actually feasible....it's the garbage and litter.
There is no reason for a semi-developed country such as Korea to pile their garbage into huge heaps on the sidewalk. China is RIGHT THERE, get some cheap-o garbage cans pressed together in China, put them on a boat, and put your garbage inside.....then, get the lazy police out of the station and have them start writing 10,000W tickets for littering. Keep it low so that people are peeved but don't fight it. The littering problem in this country is insane. |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Supposedly there's a reason for the lack of trash cans.
This was all before my time, but it's been discussed before.
The government introduced new trash bags with a price tag to encourage people to recycle. They figured people wouldn't fill up their bags with recyclables if the bags cost money. To avoid having to pay for bags, some people starting dumping their household garbage in the previously plentiful public trash cans. To curb this behavior, the government removed public trash cans.
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. |
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willteachforfood
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Supposedly there's a reason for the lack of trash cans.
This was all before my time, but it's been discussed before.
The government introduced new trash bags with a price tag to encourage people to recycle. They figured people wouldn't fill up their bags with recyclables if the bags cost money. To avoid having to pay for bags, some people starting dumping their household garbage in the previously plentiful public trash cans. To curb this behavior, the government removed public trash cans.
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. |
Whether this story is true or not, it doesn't take away from the fact that there is a better system out there for trash collection than the one currently in place. For one thing, this whole pay for garbage collection with the price of bags clearly is far too easy to get around...if you put your garbage in HomePlus bags nothing happens except that you might feel a little bad.....get rid of this pay for the bags system and have folk pay a garbage bill. As there are so many apartments here it can just be worked into the monthly fees. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Supposedly there's a reason for the lack of trash cans.
This was all before my time, but it's been discussed before.
The government introduced new trash bags with a price tag to encourage people to recycle. They figured people wouldn't fill up their bags with recyclables if the bags cost money. To avoid having to pay for bags, some people starting dumping their household garbage in the previously plentiful public trash cans. To curb this behavior, the government removed public trash cans.
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. |
Don't know if you're wrong, but it does seem like the typical government response to things; make things worse by making idiotic decisions. People ended up just throwing trash on the street.
All the responses here have been done before and nothing ever changes. We've needed better traffic conditions, better enforcement, more trashcans and less restards in the government years ago. Yet we still have crap roads, lazy cops, a lack of trashcans and more or less the same retards in government positions. |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| willteachforfood wrote: |
I think that most of the ideas presented here are WELL beyond the scope of what the OP is looking for.
Additional subway lines costs in the hundreds of millions and even extended subway hours costs millions. Personally I am surprised that a city the size of Seoul doesn't have enough demand to keep the subway open, but it could be that in a cost/benefit analysis that they don't make enough money after 12 to make it worth their while....add into the mix that we're mostly talking about drunks that want to ride after midnight....this would require greater security on the trains and in the stations, more mess to clean up, and so on. Now, I like to drink sometimes too, and it sucks when I would prefer to ride the train than pay for a cab, but having society pay millions of dollars to keep the Party-Tube running all night would be silly. If a feasibility study shows that the trains would have enough riders to pay for operations until 1 or 2 am and the powers at be simply are putting their foot down because they are ajoshis, well, then this is a different scenario. For me, however, as much as I have no faith in Korean management and planning, do think that the subway hours have been thoroughly examined and that it has been determined that not enough riders would use the trains after midnight. Especially when you consider that 1/2 of those riders already DO pay for the 11 o'clock train....so opening later would mean that the system would not be operating under full efficiency from the 11-12 hour now as well. |
Lots of people ride the subway late at night (11:00 hour), especially on the weekends. I always thought it was the taxi lobby that prevents the subways from operating past midnight. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| willteachforfood wrote: |
I think that most of the ideas presented here are WELL beyond the scope of what the OP is looking for.
Additional subway lines costs in the hundreds of millions and even extended subway hours costs millions. Personally I am surprised that a city the size of Seoul doesn't have enough demand to keep the subway open, but it could be that in a cost/benefit analysis that they don't make enough money after 12 to make it worth their while....add into the mix that we're mostly talking about drunks that want to ride after midnight....this would require greater security on the trains and in the stations, more mess to clean up, and so on. Now, I like to drink sometimes too, and it sucks when I would prefer to ride the train than pay for a cab, but having society pay millions of dollars to keep the Party-Tube running all night would be silly. If a feasibility study shows that the trains would have enough riders to pay for operations until 1 or 2 am and the powers at be simply are putting their foot down because they are ajoshis, well, then this is a different scenario. For me, however, as much as I have no faith in Korean management and planning, do think that the subway hours have been thoroughly examined and that it has been determined that not enough riders would use the trains after midnight. Especially when you consider that 1/2 of those riders already DO pay for the 11 o'clock train....so opening later would mean that the system would not be operating under full efficiency from the 11-12 hour now as well.
If I had to choose 1 thing that would make Korea better that is actually feasible....it's the garbage and litter.
There is no reason for a semi-developed country such as Korea to pile their garbage into huge heaps on the sidewalk. China is RIGHT THERE, get some cheap-o garbage cans pressed together in China, put them on a boat, and put your garbage inside.....then, get the lazy police out of the station and have them start writing 10,000W tickets for littering. Keep it low so that people are peeved but don't fight it. The littering problem in this country is insane. |
While the proposed solutions and indeed, many of the problems, are beyond the scope, it doesn't hurt to mention them. Anything that is consistently brought up will probably work its way into her report, and then there's always a chance that it can start to work its way through the system. 5-10 years later a policy change emerges.
One thing for the subways might be that while the line might be feasible, the stations might not be- The shops, bathrooms, power, etc.
Another reason for the lack of late night subway service could be the Taxi interests. Cabbies make a huge chunk of their money of people being drunk at night. The companies and the driver's certainly would raise a stink over late night subway service. However, on a limited scale, perhaps on only two days, it might be feasible. At the very least there could be some sort of North to South side shuttle/bus. Very often cabbies will not go from one side to the other.
Also, its not just drunks. Seoul is a very nocturnal city. It's not uncommon to see people out shopping or enjoying a coffee or studying into the wee hours. And not just young people, but people of all ages, family people.
Also I do think that Seoul is constantly examining their subway system. New lines/stops are getting added on a regular basis. We saw Line 9 and the ICN to Seoul Station line go up this year.
The traffic problems are much more difficult to manage. The sheer density of people and design of the roads mean conditions are always going to be chaotic. I think with traffic we need to be patient. Driver experience and hours behind the wheel are some of the best ways to reduce the risk of accidents. In another 10 years traffic accidents rates should be further reduced. In the interim the most that could be done is to raise the number of training hours required for one to get their license. Most everything else would have to involve legislative action, rather than a policy change or department program.
Another idea
-A more comprehensive arts, recreation, entertainment, and dining website for non-Korean speakers. The standard sites are inconsistent and finding information can be a tedious process. While most major events are covered, minor events are more difficult to learn about. As a government website it would not be able to do reviews or anything like that, but it certainly could contain Information, Directions, Schedules, and Contact info. |
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willteachforfood
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| sallymonster wrote: |
| Lots of people ride the subway late at night (11:00 hour), especially on the weekends. I always thought it was the taxi lobby that prevents the subways from operating past midnight. |
Define "lots".
I have ridden the subway at 11pm loads of times, and while the trains are far from empty, there is a big difference between a train that is 15-20% full and a train that is operating above cost.
Again, I'd like to see the trains open later....well, I don't really care because in 2 weeks time I won't be in Korea...but I would have liked to have seen the trains open later...all I am saying is that it may not be as economically feasible as people think....especially when we consider that the 20% full train at 11pm will now be 10% full as 1/2 of those people choose to take the later train....push the hours to 2am and now you've got 3 hours of nearly empty trains.
Perhaps a system of increasing the rates by 50% after 10pm would help to keep the trains open later...but I am sure that people would be up in arms about this idea as well. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| willteachforfood wrote: |
| sallymonster wrote: |
| Lots of people ride the subway late at night (11:00 hour), especially on the weekends. I always thought it was the taxi lobby that prevents the subways from operating past midnight. |
Define "lots".
I have ridden the subway at 11pm loads of times, and while the trains are far from empty, there is a big difference between a train that is 15-20% full and a train that is operating above cost.
Again, I'd like to see the trains open later....well, I don't really care because in 2 weeks time I won't be in Korea...but I would have liked to have seen the trains open later...all I am saying is that it may not be as economically feasible as people think....especially when we consider that the 20% full train at 11pm will now be 10% full as 1/2 of those people choose to take the later train....push the hours to 2am and now you've got 3 hours of nearly empty trains.
Perhaps a system of increasing the rates by 50% after 10pm would help to keep the trains open later...but I am sure that people would be up in arms about this idea as well. |
It would have to be very limited, maybe only the green line, and maybe only certain stops. Also it would probably only work Friday and Saturday, and then only till maybe 2AM. Worth a study and an experiment, but as was said, cabbies will create a ruckus. |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Anything new or changes you would like to see in Korea |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| wolverine wrote: |
Hello everyone,
My wifey is a civil servant in Gyeonggi, she wants to submit some ideas, new things or changes that could be made in Korea to make life better for everyone, to her bosses. Not sure what type of influence she'll have, but apparently the people up top are open to listening to new suggestions or ideas. Just wanted to get some foreigner ideas and input, so please fire anyway. [/b] |
Knowing Korea like I do, she'll submit the ideas, her superiors will say "good ideas," and then nothing is done. |
Kinda like Hey boss, this "2010-2012: Visit Korea YEAR" slogan is completely wrong.
Boss: Ok I'll get someone to fix that.
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| There can't be any improvement under this social atmosphere. |
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sesyeux
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Location: king 'arrys
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| i for one would enjoy the party tube |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with many others.
1) late night 24 hour subways would make Seoul a better place to go for the weekend. Other sities don't need it because they are smaller. Seoul is so big that often my night ends early because me or others need to take the last subway home. The reason they stop at 11pm and start again at 5am is probably because of unions - either taxi or subway or both. Unions run this country.
2) There are not enough rubbish bins in public places. This is a Nationwide problem
3) Please enforce the road rules. PLEASE. I know so many foreigners (and Koreans!!!!) who refuse to buy a car simply because they are scared of dying
4) Replace income taxes with increased land/property taxes as much as possible to pop the housing bubble |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| willteachforfood wrote: |
| sallymonster wrote: |
| Lots of people ride the subway late at night (11:00 hour), especially on the weekends. I always thought it was the taxi lobby that prevents the subways from operating past midnight. |
Define "lots".
I have ridden the subway at 11pm loads of times, and while the trains are far from empty, there is a big difference between a train that is 15-20% full and a train that is operating above cost.
Again, I'd like to see the trains open later....well, I don't really care because in 2 weeks time I won't be in Korea...but I would have liked to have seen the trains open later...all I am saying is that it may not be as economically feasible as people think....especially when we consider that the 20% full train at 11pm will now be 10% full as 1/2 of those people choose to take the later train....push the hours to 2am and now you've got 3 hours of nearly empty trains.
Perhaps a system of increasing the rates by 50% after 10pm would help to keep the trains open later...but I am sure that people would be up in arms about this idea as well. |
On weekends, I've ridden in packed trains during the 10 and 11:00 hours.
I can see your point about weekdays though. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Enforce laws against public drunkenness. |
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nick70100
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sallymonster wrote: |
| willteachforfood wrote: |
| sallymonster wrote: |
| Lots of people ride the subway late at night (11:00 hour), especially on the weekends. I always thought it was the taxi lobby that prevents the subways from operating past midnight. |
Define "lots".
I have ridden the subway at 11pm loads of times, and while the trains are far from empty, there is a big difference between a train that is 15-20% full and a train that is operating above cost.
Again, I'd like to see the trains open later....well, I don't really care because in 2 weeks time I won't be in Korea...but I would have liked to have seen the trains open later...all I am saying is that it may not be as economically feasible as people think....especially when we consider that the 20% full train at 11pm will now be 10% full as 1/2 of those people choose to take the later train....push the hours to 2am and now you've got 3 hours of nearly empty trains.
Perhaps a system of increasing the rates by 50% after 10pm would help to keep the trains open later...but I am sure that people would be up in arms about this idea as well. |
On weekends, I've ridden in packed trains during the 10 and 11:00 hours.
I can see your point about weekdays though. |
I think the best solution to this is what is done in Paris. The metro shuts down around midnight similar to Seoul, but they operate a special "Night bus" route network between midnight and 5am. The buses aren't as frequent as during the daytime but they connect most of the major metro stations in the city. It's much more cost effective to operate a few buses than keeping the entire subway system open. It allows the overnight time to be used for maintenance of the trains/tracks/stations yet still gives people an affordable public transport option. Traffic generally isn't bad in the overnight hours either.
I think something like this could work in Seoul.
Last edited by nick70100 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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