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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I don't imagine the Chinese government slept very well last night. |
China has pretty much zero need to worry, considering their economy continues to boom. Indonesia under Suharto is probably closer to the Chinese analogy, and he stuck around until his country's economy crashed. The reason a guy like Mubarak was vulnerable wasn't simply because he was a dictator, it was because he failed to meet the basic needs of his people in terms of economic growth and employment, all the while running an extremely corrupt state. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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So will democracy bring economic improvement and a rise in the standard of living?
I doubt it, if you look at the most recent economic success stories (per capita), all 4 being in Asia, none of them started off as democracies when the boom started, and only 2 are full-fledged democracies now. Egypt needs another dictator to force through progressive economic policies, but one that doesn't crack down on dissent. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yo Mubarak!
I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish,
but Coucescu had one of the best dictator overthrows of all time! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| China has pretty much zero need to worry |
They don't seem to agree with you, judging by their actions. They have censored as much as possible of the events going on in Egypt.
I'm not predicting there will be an insurrection in China. I just meant that all leaders of one party states are nervous, and China is a one party state and is not immune to the present political climate.
Since my last post I found out Biden called on the Iranian government to allow the protests on Monday and he was followed by Robert Gibbs (two times) in his final appearance. Could it be that Obama is trying to stir the pot in Iran? Kinda makes you wonder. (Go Green Revolution!) |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
They don't seem to agree with you, judging by their actions. They have censored as much as possible of the events going on in Egypt. |
China doesn't need to worry now. However, when their market bubbles burst, unemployment skyrockets, and inflation becomes a major problem, they aren't going to want people remembering what the Egyptians pulled off. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
So will democracy bring economic improvement and a rise in the standard of living?
I doubt it, if you look at the most recent economic success stories (per capita), all 4 being in Asia, none of them started off as democracies when the boom started, and only 2 are full-fledged democracies now. Egypt needs another dictator to force through progressive economic policies, but one that doesn't crack down on dissent. |
And one who cares about progress over power, a la Lee Kuan Yew. If you look at interviews with that guy, he basically admits that he's a total ****head but had to be to get done what needed to be done. |
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Math
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
So will democracy bring economic improvement and a rise in the standard of living?
I doubt it, if you look at the most recent economic success stories (per capita), all 4 being in Asia, none of them started off as democracies when the boom started, and only 2 are full-fledged democracies now. Egypt needs another dictator to force through progressive economic policies, but one that doesn't crack down on dissent. |
Egypt should never be as democratic as a western nation. Excessive democracy leads to corporatism, excessive pandering to special interest groups, or both. Less attention should be paid to the (easily purchasable) will of the people, and more attention should be paid to what's good for the people. Economic progress is a part of what's good for the people, but there are other important factors as well. Living well isn't just about having a plethora of cheap products available at the market. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:11 am Post subject: |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/opinion/13kristof.html?src=twrhp
Makes some good points about what can be learned in the aftermath of the uprising...too bad they are only voiced afterwards, but at least they are (kudos to the Egyptians for bringing attention to the topics discussed). |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, so long as you read the comments at the end.
Wow beck's, I guess you'd rather all the Egyptians just accept being stepped on rather than stand up and try to effect change.
Of course there's the possibility that things 'll get worse, especially when there are certain individuals and corporations allied with geopolitical/military industrial complex interests which want to ensure that other countries don't get it into their heads that the people have the power, and will therefore attempt to sabotage the formation of a better alternative.
But at the end of the day, you've got to ask the question- Do you want to die as a mouse, or go out fighting? Stay in a stable but reppressive situation, or go for something better?
Even if the darker forces win out for the immediate future, the courage of the Egyptian people and their demonstration of what's possible when people band together will stand for all history as model of hope for all future generations.
That in itself has made it all worthwhile, unless of course you are allied with the military industrial complex, in which case you can suck it. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, if you're paranoid and/or want to freak people out. That op-ed is silly. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Ezra Levant said:
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| But most of all, congratulations to the journalists of the mainstream media. As always, this revolution was about them � just ask them. More media attention was given to the fact that CNN's dreamy anchor, Anderson Cooper, was roughed up by protesters than was given to investigating the anti-women, anti-secular, anti-Semitic, anti-western ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, though they're the likely victors of any "election" that might be held in coming months. |
Neo-con argumentation! I miss reading Ezra telling me how Iraq was going to become Denmark cause of GWB back in 2002/3 in the National Post.
The organizations, states and individuals that oppose the worldview (Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel) of people like Levant are always framed with the most aggressive terms. The optimistic side of me hopes that they've overplayed their hand and the American/Canadian people aren't much falling for it anymore.
Oh, I also really enjoy how neo-cons like Levant use the language and values of the left to justify a foreign policy that is to the right of Attila the Hun.
Sun TV is going to suck out loud. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
The optimistic side of me hopes that they've overplayed their hand and the American/Canadian people aren't much falling for it anymore.
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I really do hope that's true. Nowhere Man's post on Cheney's reception at CPAC is a good sign. Policy makers who share Levant's point of view are more of a danger to American security than Bin Laden's crew ever was. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:03 am Post subject: |
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I like how Levant congratulates himself for hating Mubarak.
Who the hell does he think his buddies in the Likud have been backing all these years? |
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