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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Again many employers exclude online degrees
Here is an example taken from an application for one of the top unis in the ME:
Educational Qualifications:
Qualification* Date Grade/ GPA Duration Major Institution Country
*only those obtained on campus as (***omitted****) University does not recognize online degrees). |
One is not many and I can type too. The missing link please. |
http://www.2shared.com/document/VyvqRCIk/FORMS_1__2.html |
A Word document? A top university in the ME is hosting a 2 page Word document (a job application, no less) on 2shared.com? Hehe....right. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Again many employers exclude online degrees
Here is an example taken from an application for one of the top unis in the ME:
Educational Qualifications:
Qualification* Date Grade/ GPA Duration Major Institution Country
*only those obtained on campus as (***omitted****) University does not recognize online degrees). |
One is not many and I can type too. The missing link please. |
http://www.2shared.com/document/VyvqRCIk/FORMS_1__2.html |
A Word document? A top university in the ME is hosting a 2 page Word document (a job application, no less) on 2shared.com? Hehe....right. |
No it was emailed to qualified candidates. I'm guessing you probably wouldn't qualify to get that attachment. And as I already stated, I uploaded it for you. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Again many employers exclude online degrees
Here is an example taken from an application for one of the top unis in the ME:
Educational Qualifications:
Qualification* Date Grade/ GPA Duration Major Institution Country
*only those obtained on campus as (***omitted****) University does not recognize online degrees). |
One is not many and I can type too. The missing link please. |
http://www.2shared.com/document/VyvqRCIk/FORMS_1__2.html |
A Word document? A top university in the ME is hosting a 2 page Word document (a job application, no less) on 2shared.com? Hehe....right. |
No it was emailed to qualified candidates. I'm guessing you probably wouldn't qualify to get that attachment. And as I already stated, I uploaded it for you. |
More like wishing I weren't. Afraid of competition? Lol...Good luck, champ. |
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bigpun
Joined: 16 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: On-campus/On-line MAs |
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The Middle East (and Japan from what I heard) is far more discriminating when it comes to assessing credentials. Olsanairbase is right when he points out that Universities in the ME will reject outright applicants with purely distance-learning MAs, unless those MAs include an on-campus component of some kind, especially a practicum (for MA TESOL programs) and/or a thesis/dissertation.
Korea is more concerned with having the letters following your name. A 1-year online MA would get you a serious look from schools here, even if you have no university teaching experience - if you had a look at A LOT of the job listings here this past hiring season, you would see many ads specifying that an MA is preferred even without experience. Take a school like Kyungwon - not the best program or teaching conditions, but a GOOD salary and vacation - they were looking almost exclusively for English-related MAs, except in the case of someone with exceptional experience.
Another example is Kwangju Women's University, who hired from out-of-country to get people with English-related MAs. It is a case of ratings, as well as money - at Yonsei Wonju the original hiring guidelines were laid out for Master's holders with English and non-English-related degrees; English-related MAs needed 2 years of experience, while other Master's degree holders needed 3+TESL cert. But to boost the ranking of the program, only applicants with English-related MAs were even considered - this was something that came down from way up top, but the AD was looking at qualifications, separating applicants into two categories, and throwing out the candidates without English-related MAs without even considering teaching experience. The hiring rules were bent (in terms of experience) in order to take on new-hires with English-related MAs. Yonsei wouldn't promote people on staff now with MScs to the new NTP contract.
For Korea, the name of the game is having the right letters. With any Master's degree you can still get into the realm of university teaching, end up at a job with low hours and a long vacation. But that will only get you so far. More and more English-related MAs are becoming the preferred (and sometimes the only acceptable) qualification - and this is for positions that are considered "entry-level", not to mention the better schools. The people I know in the best positions here have MAs in Applied Linguistics with DELTAS; others who have MAs in Eng.Lit are working on PhDs here.
FWIW, an MA TESOL is a terminal degree, and less academically oriented, while an MA Applied Linguistics can lead to the next level. But the difference between a purely on-line degree and one with an on-campus option will be felt more if you leave here for the better-paying jobs in other countries. |
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Space Cowboy
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Location: On the blessed hellride
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: Re: On-campus/On-line MAs |
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| bigpun wrote: |
The Middle East (and Japan from what I heard) is far more discriminating when it comes to assessing credentials. Olsanairbase is right when he points out that Universities in the ME will reject outright applicants with purely distance-learning MAs, unless those MAs include an on-campus component of some kind, especially a practicum (for MA TESOL programs) and/or a thesis/dissertation.
Korea is more concerned with having the letters following your name. A 1-year online MA would get you a serious look from schools here, even if you have no university teaching experience - if you had a look at A LOT of the job listings here this past hiring season, you would see many ads specifying that an MA is preferred even without experience. Take a school like Kyungwon - not the best program or teaching conditions, but a GOOD salary and vacation - they were looking almost exclusively for English-related MAs, except in the case of someone with exceptional experience.
Another example is Kwangju Women's University, who hired from out-of-country to get people with English-related MAs. It is a case of ratings, as well as money - at Yonsei Wonju the original hiring guidelines were laid out for Master's holders with English and non-English-related degrees; English-related MAs needed 2 years of experience, while other Master's degree holders needed 3+TESL cert. But to boost the ranking of the program, only applicants with English-related MAs were even considered - this was something that came down from way up top, but the AD was looking at qualifications, separating applicants into two categories, and throwing out the candidates without English-related MAs without even considering teaching experience. The hiring rules were bent (in terms of experience) in order to take on new-hires with English-related MAs. Yonsei wouldn't promote people on staff now with MScs to the new NTP contract.
For Korea, the name of the game is having the right letters. With any Master's degree you can still get into the realm of university teaching, end up at a job with low hours and a long vacation. But that will only get you so far. More and more English-related MAs are becoming the preferred (and sometimes the only acceptable) qualification - and this is for positions that are considered "entry-level", not to mention the better schools. The people I know in the best positions here have MAs in Applied Linguistics with DELTAS; others who have MAs in Eng.Lit are working on PhDs here.
FWIW, an MA TESOL is a terminal degree, and less academically oriented, while an MA Applied Linguistics can lead to the next level. But the difference between a purely on-line degree and one with an on-campus option will be felt more if you leave here for the better-paying jobs in other countries. |
The EFL programs are ranked here? Who is the ranking body? Is there a published list? I want to know how my school fares. 
BTW, agreed with olsan and bigpun about the Middle East and distance learning MAs: If you read through the UAE board on Dave's, you'll come across quite a few posts started by spurned applicants. Saudi, on the other hand, seems a lot more flexible, but who wants to waste an MA there?
My two cents: I recommend an MA-TESOL. My master's is in TESOL/Applied Linguistics, but the program was geared very heavily toward research. I only had three really practical teaching courses in a 33-hour degree. As a result, I left grad school feeling more prepared to analyze a class than to teach it. Look carefully over the required coursework, and make sure the program faculty actually have pedagogical interests. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: On-campus/On-line MAs |
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| Space Cowboy wrote: |
| bigpun wrote: |
The Middle East (and Japan from what I heard) is far more discriminating when it comes to assessing credentials. Olsanairbase is right when he points out that Universities in the ME will reject outright applicants with purely distance-learning MAs, unless those MAs include an on-campus component of some kind, especially a practicum (for MA TESOL programs) and/or a thesis/dissertation.
Korea is more concerned with having the letters following your name. A 1-year online MA would get you a serious look from schools here, even if you have no university teaching experience - if you had a look at A LOT of the job listings here this past hiring season, you would see many ads specifying that an MA is preferred even without experience. Take a school like Kyungwon - not the best program or teaching conditions, but a GOOD salary and vacation - they were looking almost exclusively for English-related MAs, except in the case of someone with exceptional experience.
Another example is Kwangju Women's University, who hired from out-of-country to get people with English-related MAs. It is a case of ratings, as well as money - at Yonsei Wonju the original hiring guidelines were laid out for Master's holders with English and non-English-related degrees; English-related MAs needed 2 years of experience, while other Master's degree holders needed 3+TESL cert. But to boost the ranking of the program, only applicants with English-related MAs were even considered - this was something that came down from way up top, but the AD was looking at qualifications, separating applicants into two categories, and throwing out the candidates without English-related MAs without even considering teaching experience. The hiring rules were bent (in terms of experience) in order to take on new-hires with English-related MAs. Yonsei wouldn't promote people on staff now with MScs to the new NTP contract.
For Korea, the name of the game is having the right letters. With any Master's degree you can still get into the realm of university teaching, end up at a job with low hours and a long vacation. But that will only get you so far. More and more English-related MAs are becoming the preferred (and sometimes the only acceptable) qualification - and this is for positions that are considered "entry-level", not to mention the better schools. The people I know in the best positions here have MAs in Applied Linguistics with DELTAS; others who have MAs in Eng.Lit are working on PhDs here.
FWIW, an MA TESOL is a terminal degree, and less academically oriented, while an MA Applied Linguistics can lead to the next level. But the difference between a purely on-line degree and one with an on-campus option will be felt more if you leave here for the better-paying jobs in other countries. |
The EFL programs are ranked here? Who is the ranking body? Is there a published list? I want to know how my school fares.
BTW, agreed with olsan and bigpun about the Middle East and distance learning MAs: If you read through the UAE board on Dave's, you'll come across quite a few posts started by spurned applicants. Saudi, on the other hand, seems a lot more flexible, but who wants to waste an MA there?
My two cents: I recommend an MA-TESOL. My master's is in TESOL/Applied Linguistics, but the program was geared very heavily toward research. I only had three really practical teaching courses in a 33-hour degree. As a result, I left grad school feeling more prepared to analyze a class than to teach it. Look carefully over the required coursework, and make sure the program faculty actually have pedagogical interests. |
Saudi Arabia isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Jeddah on the Red Sea is actually pretty nice place to live. Key is getting good housing arrangements (maybe even in a foreigner compound). Most people usually fly to Bahrain for the weekend if they want to let loose since drinking, prostitution and everything else you can think of is legal in Bahrain. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: On-campus/On-line MAs |
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| Space Cowboy wrote: |
| bigpun wrote: |
The Middle East (and Japan from what I heard) is far more discriminating when it comes to assessing credentials. Olsanairbase is right when he points out that Universities in the ME will reject outright applicants with purely distance-learning MAs, unless those MAs include an on-campus component of some kind, especially a practicum (for MA TESOL programs) and/or a thesis/dissertation.
Korea is more concerned with having the letters following your name. A 1-year online MA would get you a serious look from schools here, even if you have no university teaching experience - if you had a look at A LOT of the job listings here this past hiring season, you would see many ads specifying that an MA is preferred even without experience. Take a school like Kyungwon - not the best program or teaching conditions, but a GOOD salary and vacation - they were looking almost exclusively for English-related MAs, except in the case of someone with exceptional experience.
Another example is Kwangju Women's University, who hired from out-of-country to get people with English-related MAs. It is a case of ratings, as well as money - at Yonsei Wonju the original hiring guidelines were laid out for Master's holders with English and non-English-related degrees; English-related MAs needed 2 years of experience, while other Master's degree holders needed 3+TESL cert. But to boost the ranking of the program, only applicants with English-related MAs were even considered - this was something that came down from way up top, but the AD was looking at qualifications, separating applicants into two categories, and throwing out the candidates without English-related MAs without even considering teaching experience. The hiring rules were bent (in terms of experience) in order to take on new-hires with English-related MAs. Yonsei wouldn't promote people on staff now with MScs to the new NTP contract.
For Korea, the name of the game is having the right letters. With any Master's degree you can still get into the realm of university teaching, end up at a job with low hours and a long vacation. But that will only get you so far. More and more English-related MAs are becoming the preferred (and sometimes the only acceptable) qualification - and this is for positions that are considered "entry-level", not to mention the better schools. The people I know in the best positions here have MAs in Applied Linguistics with DELTAS; others who have MAs in Eng.Lit are working on PhDs here.
FWIW, an MA TESOL is a terminal degree, and less academically oriented, while an MA Applied Linguistics can lead to the next level. But the difference between a purely on-line degree and one with an on-campus option will be felt more if you leave here for the better-paying jobs in other countries. |
The EFL programs are ranked here? Who is the ranking body? Is there a published list? I want to know how my school fares.
BTW, agreed with olsan and bigpun about the Middle East and distance learning MAs: If you read through the UAE board on Dave's, you'll come across quite a few posts started by spurned applicants. Saudi, on the other hand, seems a lot more flexible, but who wants to waste an MA there?
My two cents: I recommend an MA-TESOL. My master's is in TESOL/Applied Linguistics, but the program was geared very heavily toward research. I only had three really practical teaching courses in a 33-hour degree. As a result, I left grad school feeling more prepared to analyze a class than to teach it. Look carefully over the required coursework, and make sure the program faculty actually have pedagogical interests. |
Saudi Arabia isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Jeddah on the Red Sea is actually pretty nice place to live. Key is getting good housing arrangements (maybe even in a foreigner compound). Most people usually fly to Bahrain for the weekend if they want to let loose since drinking, prostitution and everything else you can think of is legal in Bahrain. However, the UAE I think wins overall as the best place over there. |
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jeonjugirl
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: Re: On-campus/On-line MAs |
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| bigpun wrote: |
The Middle East (and Japan from what I heard) is far more discriminating when it comes to assessing credentials. Olsanairbase is right when he points out that Universities in the ME will reject outright applicants with purely distance-learning MAs, unless those MAs include an on-campus component of some kind, especially a practicum (for MA TESOL programs) and/or a thesis/dissertation.
Korea is more concerned with having the letters following your name. A 1-year online MA would get you a serious look from schools here, even if you have no university teaching experience - if you had a look at A LOT of the job listings here this past hiring season, you would see many ads specifying that an MA is preferred even without experience. Take a school like Kyungwon - not the best program or teaching conditions, but a GOOD salary and vacation - they were looking almost exclusively for English-related MAs, except in the case of someone with exceptional experience.
Another example is Kwangju Women's University, who hired from out-of-country to get people with English-related MAs. It is a case of ratings, as well as money - at Yonsei Wonju the original hiring guidelines were laid out for Master's holders with English and non-English-related degrees; English-related MAs needed 2 years of experience, while other Master's degree holders needed 3+TESL cert. But to boost the ranking of the program, only applicants with English-related MAs were even considered - this was something that came down from way up top, but the AD was looking at qualifications, separating applicants into two categories, and throwing out the candidates without English-related MAs without even considering teaching experience. The hiring rules were bent (in terms of experience) in order to take on new-hires with English-related MAs. Yonsei wouldn't promote people on staff now with MScs to the new NTP contract.
For Korea, the name of the game is having the right letters. With any Master's degree you can still get into the realm of university teaching, end up at a job with low hours and a long vacation. But that will only get you so far. More and more English-related MAs are becoming the preferred (and sometimes the only acceptable) qualification - and this is for positions that are considered "entry-level", not to mention the better schools. The people I know in the best positions here have MAs in Applied Linguistics with DELTAS; others who have MAs in Eng.Lit are working on PhDs here.
FWIW, an MA TESOL is a terminal degree, and less academically oriented, while an MA Applied Linguistics can lead to the next level. But the difference between a purely on-line degree and one with an on-campus option will be felt more if you leave here for the better-paying jobs in other countries. |
2 comments:
Some Korean universities do look at more than the letters following your name. I was on a hiring committee where the Koreans questioned whether a doctoral degree from Australia, under David Nunan himself, was valid because it was 100% research-based, and didn't include coursework. (Korean M.A./Ph.D. degrees seem to all include coursework.) Foreigners on a committee may not mind, but the Koreans likely do.
An M.A. TESOL is no longer a terminal degree. I am likely starting an EdD TESOL this year. I guess there are so many MA TESOL programs that unis have realized there's a market for doctoral programs. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: On-campus/On-line MAs |
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| jeonjugirl wrote: |
| bigpun wrote: |
The Middle East (and Japan from what I heard) is far more discriminating when it comes to assessing credentials. Olsanairbase is right when he points out that Universities in the ME will reject outright applicants with purely distance-learning MAs, unless those MAs include an on-campus component of some kind, especially a practicum (for MA TESOL programs) and/or a thesis/dissertation.
Korea is more concerned with having the letters following your name. A 1-year online MA would get you a serious look from schools here, even if you have no university teaching experience - if you had a look at A LOT of the job listings here this past hiring season, you would see many ads specifying that an MA is preferred even without experience. Take a school like Kyungwon - not the best program or teaching conditions, but a GOOD salary and vacation - they were looking almost exclusively for English-related MAs, except in the case of someone with exceptional experience.
Another example is Kwangju Women's University, who hired from out-of-country to get people with English-related MAs. It is a case of ratings, as well as money - at Yonsei Wonju the original hiring guidelines were laid out for Master's holders with English and non-English-related degrees; English-related MAs needed 2 years of experience, while other Master's degree holders needed 3+TESL cert. But to boost the ranking of the program, only applicants with English-related MAs were even considered - this was something that came down from way up top, but the AD was looking at qualifications, separating applicants into two categories, and throwing out the candidates without English-related MAs without even considering teaching experience. The hiring rules were bent (in terms of experience) in order to take on new-hires with English-related MAs. Yonsei wouldn't promote people on staff now with MScs to the new NTP contract.
For Korea, the name of the game is having the right letters. With any Master's degree you can still get into the realm of university teaching, end up at a job with low hours and a long vacation. But that will only get you so far. More and more English-related MAs are becoming the preferred (and sometimes the only acceptable) qualification - and this is for positions that are considered "entry-level", not to mention the better schools. The people I know in the best positions here have MAs in Applied Linguistics with DELTAS; others who have MAs in Eng.Lit are working on PhDs here.
FWIW, an MA TESOL is a terminal degree, and less academically oriented, while an MA Applied Linguistics can lead to the next level. But the difference between a purely on-line degree and one with an on-campus option will be felt more if you leave here for the better-paying jobs in other countries. |
2 comments:
Some Korean universities do look at more than the letters following your name. I was on a hiring committee where the Koreans questioned whether a doctoral degree from Australia, under David Nunan himself, was valid because it was 100% research-based, and didn't include coursework. (Korean M.A./Ph.D. degrees seem to all include coursework.) Foreigners on a committee may not mind, but the Koreans likely do.
An M.A. TESOL is no longer a terminal degree. I am likely starting an EdD TESOL this year. I guess there are so many MA TESOL programs that unis have realized there's a market for doctoral programs. |
If anyone aspires to teach ESL at the university or collegiate level then a doctoral degree is a pre-requisite.
Most EdD programs are teaching based programs (most geared for K-12 instruction not post-secondary). PhD programs are geared more toward research. If you want to work at a teacher based small college than the EdD in TESOL will work. But, if you want to work for larger research based university where "publishing" is the norm than a PhD is the better way to go so you don't "perish". |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| If anyone aspires to teach ESL at the university or collegiate level then a doctoral degree is a pre-requisite. |
This isn't true. There are a lot of jobs at the community college level that have positions for people with Masters degrees. Now, that isn't to say a PHd wouldn't be better but you can get a college job with a Masters. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott in Incheon wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If anyone aspires to teach ESL at the university or collegiate level then a doctoral degree is a pre-requisite. |
This isn't true. There are a lot of jobs at the community college level that have positions for people with Masters degrees. Now, that isn't to say a PHd wouldn't be better but you can get a college job with a Masters. |
You are absolutely right. You don't need a PhD to teach at a 2 year community college that awards 2-year Associate degrees. However, most of the ESL teaching positions are paid by the hour not by a monthly salary and are mostly non-tenured tracked positions. |
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Daryl69
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:39 am Post subject: IEC |
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Hey Thiuda & BIGPUN
Thiuda, I am sure that things will work well at the IEC (fingers crossed). Just keep your head down and be sure to ride out the bumps, as like anywhere in Korea not every decision is a good one, and there are often very good ideas with poorly thought out plans for implementation...
BIGPUN hard to disagree with much of what you wrote on the IEC. There is no ideal place in Korea (I would love to kow if there is), but the IEC has potential to be a lot better. I hope it can be! |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:41 am Post subject: Re: IEC |
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| Daryl69 wrote: |
Hey Thiuda & BIGPUN
Thiuda, I am sure that things will work well at the IEC (fingers crossed). Just keep your head down and be sure to ride out the bumps, as like anywhere in Korea not every decision is a good one, and there are often very good ideas with poorly thought out plans for implementation...
BIGPUN hard to disagree with much of what you wrote on the IEC. There is no ideal place in Korea (I would love to kow if there is), but the IEC has potential to be a lot better. I hope it can be! |
Cheers! It's been a good experience so far. The instructors are good, the supervisors are on the game and I love the commute. |
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