|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| When you let Muslims immigrate into your country you aren't so much letting in unique individuals but rather individuals that ALL belong to a collective political group that all ascribe to the same dogma and thinking patterns. I'd say Muslims are the exception to the rule. They not only resist assimilation but seek to change their host countries laws to suit themselves. |
Muslims in the USA have assimilated relatively well. |
Thats because they're still a small minority.
They are still busy organising.
When they are at 10% of the population, then see how you feel. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Junior wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| When you let Muslims immigrate into your country you aren't so much letting in unique individuals but rather individuals that ALL belong to a collective political group that all ascribe to the same dogma and thinking patterns. I'd say Muslims are the exception to the rule. They not only resist assimilation but seek to change their host countries laws to suit themselves. |
Muslims in the USA have assimilated relatively well. |
Thats because they're still a small minority.
They are still busy organising.
When they are at 10% of the population, then see how you feel. |
Here's the Pew Research Center on that:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1872/muslim-population-projections-worldwide-fast-growth |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| They don't go to the UK to make money SS. They're chasing benefits. |
A society gets the immigrants it richly deserves. In the UK, Pakistanis sponge off the taxpayer; in Saudi Arabia, they don't because the Saudis do not consider their wealth to be the entitlement of others. Here, it's either make yourself useful or bugger off. And rightly so.
| Junior wrote: |
| They not only resist assimilation but seek to change their host countries laws to suit themselves. |
I don't understand this resistance to the encroachment of Sharee'ah upon the West. Things such as compulsory donations to charity and public beheadings for murderers are to be welcomed, surely? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| They don't go to the UK to make money SS. They're chasing benefits. |
A society gets the immigrants it richly deserves. In the UK, Pakistanis sponge off the taxpayer; in Saudi Arabia, they don't because the Saudis do not consider their wealth to be the entitlement of others. Here, it's either make yourself useful or bugger off. And rightly so. |
Your countrymen never asked for this.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/228984/Scandal-of-150-000-illegal-immigrants-on-benefits
Fox said:
| Quote: |
| In places where freedom of speech is at genuine risk, it's because freedom of speech was never really a core value there in the first place. In places where freedom of speech is a core value, it's not put at especial risk by multiculturalism. |
This is completely wrong. Canada had a tradition of free speech. The US is going to get hate speech laws as well. The UK is no longer a free country. The people will not be consulted. No matter how much we object, we'll be ignored. Free speech is not a value that the present ruling class - anywhere in the West - hold dear. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The thought also occurs to me that perhaps the US Muslim population has been cowed along with most of the rest of the population. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
This is completely wrong. Canada had a tradition of free speech. |
Evidently not as much of one as you'd like.
| mises wrote: |
| The US is going to get hate speech laws as well. |
I guess we'll see, won't we? Care to give me a time frame? If free expression seriously falters in the United States, I think it's far more likely to be sacrificed on the altar of "security" than the altar of "multiculturalism."
Last edited by Fox on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How many of you closely follow this stuff? If you're relying on the NYT or similar you're not going to have a full understanding of the dysfunction that is being imported.
Here's a site that aggregates information:
http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/
For fun, set up a google alert for "Somali community" or "Sudanese community" or "muslim community". Daily dysfunction, delivered to your mailbox. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Evidently not as much of one as you'd like. |
We were far to individualistic to defeat the push. Life in a country like Canada is far too good and we're a naive, trusting people who don't think a cabal is aggressively working to ruin the place. It's an easily exploitable weakness. Canada is a high trust society. Very high trust. We were unprepared for the hostile elite.
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Ottawa+withdraws+from+clash+interests+over+hate+speech/3715859/story.html#ixzz1E6JLL0Z1
| Quote: |
| I guess we'll see, won't we? Care to give me a time frame? If free expression seriously falters in the United States, I think it's far more likely to be sacrificed on the altar of "security" than the altar of "multiculturalism." |
The time line depends on how effective the agent provocateurs from the SPLC et al are in pushing some loser in Idaho along. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The end of multiculturalism |
It is not the end.
It is not even the beginning of the end.
But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
Why? cos multiculturalism is as old as humanity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
This is completely wrong. Canada had a tradition of free speech. The US is going to get hate speech laws as well. The UK is no longer a free country. The people will not be consulted. No matter how much we object, we'll be ignored. Free speech is not a value that the present ruling class - anywhere in the West - hold dear. |
I dunno... I got the impression that Canada has a tradition of trying to make everyone OK. That seemed to be the case in international relations, domestic health programs, and now limitations on offensive speech.
| U.S. Constitution wrote: |
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. |
I like the "security of a free State" part here. The framers gave us a little something to remember that maintaining the security of a State and maintaining the security of a free State a different things, requiring different methods... The day the first amendment is illegally abridged will be the day the second amendment becomes significantly more useful.
Though I honestly don't expect it to be a problem in the U.S. anytime soon. Free speech has been working pretty well for the U.S. so far, and promoting it internationally seems to make us more friends than enemies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've always hated the argument that all multicultural societies will fail. Would you consider Canada a failure? If yes is it a result of immigrants?
There are plenty of examples of homogenous societies that are basket cases. Take a look at the hermit kingdom up north. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/18/french-journalist-racism-drug-dealer/print
| Quote: |
The controversial French journalist �ric Zemmour has been found guilty of incitement to racial hatred after telling a TV chatshow that drug dealers were mostly "blacks and Arabs".
The Paris trial sparked a fierce debate over freedom of speech and the extent of France's racism problem, which is poisoning the republican ideal that all citizens are equal regardless of colour.
Zemmour, a well-known media commentator and columnist for Le Figaro, prides himself on his outspoken defiance of what he deems political correct, woolly liberals.
He appeared on a chatshow last year when the debate turned to the question of the French police's excessive use of stop and search powers against minorities. He said: "But why are they stopped 17 times? Why? Because most dealers are blacks and Arabs. That's a fact."
According to the French model, where everyone is theoretically equal under a state blind to race or religion, it is illegal to count ethnic minorities or race statistics. So there are no figures on the ethnic identity of criminals.
Zemmour was also fined for telling another TV channel that employers "had a right" to turn down black or Arab candidates. Job discrimination over race and ethnicity is thought to be widespread in France.
Zemmour, whose parents were Jewish Berbers who emigrated from Algeria in the 1950s, told the court he was not a "provocateur" but a faithful observer of reality who refused political correctness. He was backed by several centre-right politicians and some on the left.
The state prosecutor accused him of using the "old stereotype that linked immigration to crime". |
Right wingers call this anarcho-tyranny. From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_T._Francis#Anarcho-tyranny
| Quote: |
| What we have in this country today, then, is both anarchy (the failure of the state to enforce the laws) and, at the same time, tyranny�the enforcement of laws by the state for oppressive purposes; the criminalization of the law-abiding and innocent through exorbitant taxation, bureaucratic regulation, the invasion of privacy, and the engineering of social institutions, such as the family and local schools; the imposition of thought control through "sensitivity training" and multiculturalist curricula, "hate crime" laws, gun-control laws that punish or disarm otherwise law-abiding citizens but have no impact on violent criminals who get guns illegally, and a vast labyrinth of other measures. In a word, anarcho-tyranny |
Like in Canada where Ann Coulter is subject to two minutes of hate and Tamil Tigers show up in boats illegally to a world of rights and benefits. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
L'Egalite devant la Liberte, I suppose.
But the Guardian clearly does a poor job presenting legal news. Here's a better link.
| Quote: |
In what was seen as a key judgement on what commentators can and cannot say, the court in Paris found Eric Zemmour guilty of inciting racial hatred for saying that the number of stop and searches practised on immigrants was understandable because �the majority of drug traffickers are blacks and Arabs, it�s a fact�.
He was also found guilty of a similar offence for saying that employers had �the right� not to hire blacks and Arabs.
The journalist said the second comment was taken out of context but stood by the first one, and claimed anyway that freedom of speech gave him the right to express his views.
But the court ruled that Zemmour, a well-known writer and journalist, had �gone beyond the permitted limits of freedom of expression� in his comments on programmes on first Canal and then France last March.
He was given a suspended fine of �2,000 and ordered to pay damages to the anti-racist groups who brought the action.
However the court cleared Zemmour of defamation charges. |
Restricting commentator speech is hobbling the political process. 'Anarchotyranny' is a bit of hyperbole, but we can all agree that the French state has elevated egalitarianism as a sacred value that trumps essential freedoms. Its sad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/February/Europes-Multiculturalism-Leading-to-Civil-War-/
| Quote: |
PARIS - In a northern district of Paris, a brave shopkeeper named Marie-Neige Sardin guards her newsstand like a military fort. As a white woman, she is a minority in the mostly Arab-speaking Muslim area.
Sardin has been the victim of dozens of crimes -- raped, robbed, and having acid thrown at her, as other residents try to get her to leave.
Still, Sardin -- the daughter of a French soldier -- calls her little shop "a piece of French soil inside occupied territory," and says she will not leave.
"I can't bear to tell my future grandchildren that I have done nothing to preserve our French values. So, staying here is marking our territory," she explained.
...
In cities across Europe, only a massive police presence prevents open street warfare between groups. Paris police must keep a constant vigil like their counterparts in Sweden, Denmark and Britain.
France has some 751 "No Go" zones. The French government has labeled these areas "sensitive urban zones" that are dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter.
French writer Guy Milliere said even the local authorities stay out of these zones.
"It means that it's the part of the country where the police don't go," he said. "The firemen don't go and even doctors and ambulance don't go, except if they have no other choice."
"And it's like that because these parts of the country are in the hands of drug traffickers, gangs and imams," he continued.
That has led to the formation of groups who want to oppose Islam and protect the white native French. In Nice, Philippe Vardon leads one of those groups called Bloc Identitaire. He told CBN News members are being trained in hand-to-hand combat.
"Our government, our politics are leading us to war," he said.
Vardon said the government treats the majority in France like a minority. They have been marginalized politically and victimized by immigrant crime.
|
I'm sure it will work out fine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359160/4-men-slashed-teachers-face-teaching-religions-Muslim-girls.html#ixzz1EgtwSFD7
| Quote: |
Four men launched a horrific attack on a teacher in which they slashed his face and left him with a fractured skull because they did not approve of him teaching religion to Muslim girls.
Akmol Hussein, 26, Sheikh Rashid, 27, Azad Hussain, 25, and Simon Alam, 19, attacked Gary Smith with a Stanley knife, an iron rod and a block of cement.
Mr Smith, who is head of religious education at Central Foundation Girls' School in Bow, east London, also suffered a fractured skull.
The four now face a jail sentence.
Detectives made secret recordings of the gang's plot to attack Mr Smith prior to the brutal assault.
The covert audio probe captured the gang condemning Mr Smith for 'teaching other religions to our sisters', the court heard. |
What to say.. Where is this going? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The one thing that really caught my attention in this argument is the selective way law is enforced. There was an article I read on California which pointed out that the now large areas under Mexican control seem to have no enforcement of environmental law, while large companies and areas that are still "American" are heavily regulated. It seems that the same problem exists here. The law doesn't seem to exist to protect the people already there, but to protect the newcomers from the backlash that occurs after they start ethnic cleansing the natives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
