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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Apropos...
Abusing Not Only Children, but Also Science
By ABIGAIL ZUGER, M.D.
Published: January 25, 2010
Given the vested interests lurking all over the current medical landscape, it is no wonder that the scientific method is so often mauled a little in transit. Cases of data ignored or manipulated to serve an agenda are like muggings in a bad neighborhood: you hear about them all the time, but in fact relatively few are ever openly examined.
And so even readers with no personal or professional connection to the sexual abuse of children may be edified by �The Trauma Myth,� a short tale of one such particularly fraught episode.
For a graduate research project at Harvard in the mid-1990s, the psychologist Susan A. Clancy arranged to interview adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, expecting to confirm the conventional wisdom that the more traumatic the abuse had been, the more troubled an adult the child had become.
Dr. Clancy figured she knew what she would find: �Everything I knew dictated that the abuse should be a horrible experience, that the child should be traumatized at the time it was happening � overwhelmed with fear, shock, horror.�
But many carefully documented interviews revealed nothing of the sort. Commonly, the abuse had been confusing for the child but not traumatic in the usual sense of the word. Only when the child grew old enough to understand exactly what had happened � sometimes many years later � did the fear, shock and horror begin. And only at that point did the experience become traumatic and begin its well-known destructive process.
Dr. Clancy questioned her findings, reconfirmed them and was convinced. Her audience, when she made the data public, was outraged.
First, her data flew in the face of several decades of politically correct trauma theory, feminist theory and sexual politics.
Second, Dr. Clancy found that the world had little appetite for scientific subtlety: �Unfortunately, when people heard �not traumatic when it happens,� they translated my words to mean, �It doesn�t harm victims later on.� Even worse, some assumed I was blaming victims for their abuse.�
Dr. Clancy reports that she became a pariah in lay and academic circles. She was �crucified� in the press as a �friend of pedophiles,� colleagues boycotted her talks, advisers suggested that continuing on her trajectory would rule out an academic career.
All that fuss about one little word � �trauma� � and a change in its timing. Why should it matter one way or the other?
Dr. Clancy suggests several reasons her data aroused such passion. For one thing, a whole academic and therapeutic structure rides on the old model of sexual abuse; her findings had the potential to undermine a host of expensive treatment and prevention projects.
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Dr. Clancy�s model also makes some sense of the whole sticky question of repressed memory. Most traumatic events are likely to be vividly remembered. But if instances of sexual abuse are simply among the many confusions that characterize childhood, they are perfectly forgettable: �Why should a child remember them if, at the time they happened, they were not particularly traumatic?� Only when reprocessed and fully understood do the memories leap into focus.
...science should represent truth, not wishful thinking. When good data fly in the face of beloved theory, the theory has to go. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I'm curious why you decided not to embolden this part:
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| Only when the child grew old enough to understand exactly what had happened � sometimes many years later � did the fear, shock and horror begin. And only at that point did the experience become traumatic and begin its well-known destructive process. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Because it is BS and irrelevant.
Let me translate it: "Even though their experiences were not initially significant, after many years of constant bombardment with messages that they had been abused, damaged, and traumatized did they begin to come on board."
That is what Clancy found; hence, the trauma "myth." |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| Because it is BS and irrelevant. |
Really? It seems to be half the point of the article: �Unfortunately, when people heard �not traumatic when it happens,� they translated my words to mean, �It doesn�t harm victims later on.�" |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| Because it is BS and irrelevant. |
Really? It seems to be half the point of the article: �Unfortunately, when people heard �not traumatic when it happens,� they translated my words to mean, �It doesn�t harm victims later on.�" |
Except that her work only showed it was not traumatic when it happened; her work did not address if It harmed victims later on. Clancy did not pronounce on it either way; she merely pointed out some people's interpretation. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| Clancy did not pronounce on it either way; she merely pointed out some people's interpretation. |
| Space Bar wrote: |
Let me translate it: "Even though their experiences were not initially significant, after many years of constant bombardment with messages that they had been abused, damaged, and traumatized did they begin to come on board."
That is what Clancy found |
These two statements are incompatible. In fact, your pro-pedophilia stance makes the exact same mistake that the anti-pedophilia crowd made. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| Clancy did not pronounce on it either way; she merely pointed out some people's interpretation. |
| Space Bar wrote: |
Let me translate it: "Even though their experiences were not initially significant, after many years of constant bombardment with messages that they had been abused, damaged, and traumatized did they begin to come on board."
That is what Clancy found |
These two statements are incompatible. |
How so?
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| In fact, your pro-pedophilia stance makes the exact same mistake that the anti-pedophilia crowd made. |
1. I don't have a "pro-pedophilia stance;" I have a pro-science and -reality stance.
2. What mistake would that be? |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31510813/#41480350
The hunt for a female Viagra.
First create the disorder (the market) and then introduce the drug to fix the disorder. |
Frances again.
Drug Companies Peddle Female Sexual Dysfunction
February 14, 2011
Allen Frances, MD
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Ray Moynihan (who previously gave us the invaluable book "Selling Sickness: How Drug Companies are Turning us All Into Patients") has published a new expose titled "Sex, Lies, and Pharmaceuticals."
Moynihan chronicles the aggressive efforts of the pharmaceutical industry to promote a fad in the diagnosis of female sexual dysfunction (FSD). The techniques would be shocking if they were not by now so very familiar--co-opting the thought leaders in the field, promoting biased "science," and initiating a misleading advertising campaign based on it. The particular gimmick here was to widely promulgate fudged survey results suggesting that almost half the entire female population suffer from FSD. The opportunity to create a huge new market by medicalizing normal variations in sexual desire must have had the drug companies licking their chops. |
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chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| Ever since it was put about that bacaspar/Space Bar is pro-paedo this video always pops into my mind. |
Got a link to that? |
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chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
| Ever since it was put about that bacaspar/Space Bar is pro-paedo this video always pops into my mind. |
Got a link to that? |
I'm not about to start trawling past threads just to prove an off-the-cuff assertion from memory. Just enjoy the video. |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Location: Coquitlam, BC
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:28 am Post subject: |
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I think Dr. Wakefield makes some very valid arguements that have not been disproved. You dare to tell the truth and piss-off big PHARMA and its profit$, and suddenly, one finds themselves screwed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEhN14XzyM |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
| Ever since it was put about that bacaspar/Space Bar is pro-paedo this video always pops into my mind. |
Got a link to that? |
I'm not about to start trawling past threads just to prove an off-the-cuff assertion from memory. Just enjoy the video. |
I am going to do you guys a big favor so you don't have to search all over Dave's to find the post in question. I've gone through all the trouble of finding it for you. It is actually on this very page, only two posts before chellovek's:
| Space Bar wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| In fact, your pro-pedophilia stance makes the exact same mistake that the anti-pedophilia crowd made. |
1. I don't have a "pro-pedophilia stance;" I have a pro-science and -reality stance.
2. What mistake would that be? |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| Clancy did not pronounce on it either way; she merely pointed out some people's interpretation. |
| Space Bar wrote: |
Let me translate it: "Even though their experiences were not initially significant, after many years of constant bombardment with messages that they had been abused, damaged, and traumatized did they begin to come on board."
That is what Clancy found |
These two statements are incompatible. |
How so? |
The first quoted sentence states that Clancy's research makes no pronouncement on the trauma associated with childhood abuse while the second argues that her research found that psychologists' focus on the abuse transforms it into something traumatic. Those two assertions are inconsistent... and wrong.
According to the article, she found that "survivors of childhood abuse are commonly mortified by their own behavior as children" because they didn't fight back. However, the details of the abuse are forgettable until they are later "reprocessed and fully understood". In other words, the abuse is still traumatic, the only difference being that the trauma sets in much later and is likely to not initially be clear and understandable. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| Clancy did not pronounce on it either way; she merely pointed out some people's interpretation. |
| Space Bar wrote: |
Let me translate it: "Even though their experiences were not initially significant, after many years of constant bombardment with messages that they had been abused, damaged, and traumatized did they begin to come on board."
That is what Clancy found |
These two statements are incompatible. |
How so? |
The first quoted sentence states that Clancy's research makes no pronouncement on the trauma associated with childhood abuse while the second argues that her research found that psychologists' focus on the abuse transforms it into something traumatic. Those two assertions are inconsistent... and wrong.
According to the article, she found that "survivors of childhood abuse are commonly mortified by their own behavior as children" because they didn't fight back. However, the details of the abuse are forgettable until they are later "reprocessed and fully understood". In other words, the abuse is still traumatic, the only difference being that the trauma sets in much later and is likely to not initially be clear and understandable. |
Yes, in those cases it is traumatic, but it is iatrogenic and hence avoidable. The "reprocessing and understanding" nevessary for such trauma only occur with the (dys-)psychotherapists' reinterpretations. |
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