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tehdee
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
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 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: is lack of pension a deal-breaker for you..? |
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been neogtiating a contract with somewhere im fairly excited about working. hours seem good, theres a positive energy about the place, great location...
ive been told though that they maintain private medical 50/50 120,00won/year split between me and the employer with a 100,000 premium/deductable and do NOT pay into the pension scheme. theres a slight chance theyll up the salary by 100,000/month to make up for it... but if they didnt I wouldnt necessarily be heartbroken.
just curious... is pension (or lack thereof) a deal breaker for you guys? |
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The Grumpy Senator
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Pension is required by Korean law. If you receive an E2 visa, the employer is required to contribute to the National Pension. This is a major deal-breaker for me. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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For me it is a sign of a school that will also do things on the fringes of legality and whatever it takes to save money for the director's pockets.
I also wouldn't want to live in a foreign country without health insurance for an extended period of time. The private insurance plans usually suck and don't really cover anything. What happens if you get into a terrible accident? Your parents will have to come to Korea and pay for your medical treatment? That is not fair to your family. Although you are getting insurance for yourself, it affects your entire family if you don't have it.
I wouldn't sign with a school that doesn't pay insurance. I also wouldn't if they don't pay pension. I didn't become a teacher to make a lot of money. But that's money that I should have earned. I don't like people not giving me my money that I earned. |
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tehdee
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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they realized they were nuts.
medical and pension. stoked.
thanks for your input lads. |
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Njord
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with the above - major deal breaker. This is not because of the amount of money but rather what it says about the employer. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
| Pension is required by Korean law. If you receive an E2 visa, the employer is required to contribute to the National Pension. |
Not quite.
Yes, pension is required by law, but not all schools pay into the national plan. The vast majority (all?) hagwons do contribute to national pension, but PS and unis are about 50/50 on national/private pension plans.
The school must enroll you into a pension plan: If they are part of a private pension system, then they must enroll you in it. If they are not part of a private plan, they must enroll you in NPS.
One or the other, but you must be enrolled. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
| Pension is required by Korean law. If you receive an E2 visa, the employer is required to contribute to the National Pension. |
Not quite.
Yes, pension is required by law, but not all schools pay into the national plan. The vast majority (all?) hagwons do contribute to national pension, but PS and unis are about 50/50 on national/private pension plans.
The school must enroll you into a pension plan: If they are part of a private pension system, then they must enroll you in it. If they are not part of a private plan, they must enroll you in NPS.
One or the other, but you must be enrolled. |
Not quite:
If you sign a contract as an "independent contractor" then your school is legally exempt from enrolling you in the National Pension and National Health Insurance.
You can be a legal E2 teacher as an independent contractor.
There are many large chain hogwans that use the legal independent contractor status. Some use the words "independent contractor" in the contract. Others use words such as "teacher" or "instructor" or something other than "employee."
If your contract states that you are an "employee" then you are, and you should have National Health insurance and Pension.
Finally, as an independent contractor you are still normally required to enroll yourself in the Government health and pension schemes as an individual subscriber, but of course, many teachers here don't do that as they want to cheat the system and keep that cash for themselves. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
| Pension is required by Korean law. If you receive an E2 visa, the employer is required to contribute to the National Pension. |
Not quite.
Yes, pension is required by law, but not all schools pay into the national plan. The vast majority (all?) hagwons do contribute to national pension, but PS and unis are about 50/50 on national/private pension plans.
The school must enroll you into a pension plan: If they are part of a private pension system, then they must enroll you in it. If they are not part of a private plan, they must enroll you in NPS.
One or the other, but you must be enrolled. |
Not quite:
If you sign a contract as an "independent contractor" then your school is legally exempt from enrolling you in the National Pension and National Health Insurance.
You can be a legal E2 teacher as an independent contractor.
There are many large chain hogwans that use the legal independent contractor status. Some use the words "independent contractor" in the contract. Others use words such as "teacher" or "instructor" or something other than "employee."
If your contract states that you are an "employee" then you are, and you should have National Health insurance and Pension.
Finally, as an independent contractor you are still normally required to enroll yourself in the Government health and pension schemes as an individual subscriber, but of course, many teachers here don't do that as they want to cheat the system and keep that cash for themselves. |
I think far more teachers that are hired as independent contractors don't realize they are independent contractors and are supposed to do that on their own. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Not quite:
If you sign a contract as an "independent contractor" then your school is legally exempt from enrolling you in the National Pension and National Health Insurance. |
I was not addressing the "independent" contractor issue. I was addressing the issue that it must be national pension. And it doesn't.
The BS about independent contractors has been discussed on these forums ad nauseum, and goes without saying. |
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Gaegeum2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I was told by a recruiter, when I looked for my present job, that more and more hagwons ARE NOT paying into the pension. Personally, I had noticed that it's happening more and more before this recruiter mentioned it. For me, it isn't a deal breaker, just as long as they pay me more per month  |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
| Pension is required by Korean law. If you receive an E2 visa, the employer is required to contribute to the National Pension. |
Not quite.
Yes, pension is required by law, but not all schools pay into the national plan. The vast majority (all?) hagwons do contribute to national pension, but PS and unis are about 50/50 on national/private pension plans.
The school must enroll you into a pension plan: If they are part of a private pension system, then they must enroll you in it. If they are not part of a private plan, they must enroll you in NPS.
One or the other, but you must be enrolled. |
Not quite:
If you sign a contract as an "independent contractor" then your school is legally exempt from enrolling you in the National Pension and National Health Insurance.
You can be a legal E2 teacher as an independent contractor.
There are many large chain hogwans that use the legal independent contractor status. Some use the words "independent contractor" in the contract. Others use words such as "teacher" or "instructor" or something other than "employee."
If your contract states that you are an "employee" then you are, and you should have National Health insurance and Pension.
Finally, as an independent contractor you are still normally required to enroll yourself in the Government health and pension schemes as an individual subscriber, but of course, many teachers here don't do that as they want to cheat the system and keep that cash for themselves. |
Not quite, the only way an E2 or any teacher can be an independent contractor is of they are paid per student or they legally work in multiple workplaces (good luck on that one). One of the big chains pays its Korean employees per student to get around the labour law.
If you are paid per hour or a salary and you work in 1 workplace you are an employee and no written contract can change that fact. Nice try!
I like your comment about employees cheating the system btw of course that's where the fault lies not the dodgy hagwons trying to scam the employee from gaining their lawful entitlements. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
the only way an E2 or any teacher can be an independent contractor is of they are paid per student or they legally work in multiple workplaces (good luck on that one). One of the big chains pays its Korean employees per student to get around the labour law.
If you are paid per hour or a salary and you work in 1 workplace you are an employee and no written contract can change that fact. Nice try! |
That's not how the various governmental agencies looks at it. If it says "independent contractor" in the contract, that's what they will treat you as, regardless of whether or not you are on salary, working in one workplace, or whatever.
Korean definition of independent contractor (legally speaking) is NOT the same definition we would use in our home countries. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
the only way an E2 or any teacher can be an independent contractor is of they are paid per student or they legally work in multiple workplaces (good luck on that one). One of the big chains pays its Korean employees per student to get around the labour law.
If you are paid per hour or a salary and you work in 1 workplace you are an employee and no written contract can change that fact. Nice try! |
That's not how the various governmental agencies looks at it. If it says "independent contractor" in the contract, that's what they will treat you as, regardless of whether or not you are on salary, working in one workplace, or whatever.
Korean definition of independent contractor (legally speaking) is NOT the same definition we would use in our home countries. |
My opinion is based on discussions with the labour board (remember when the law is followed Korea is one of the best countries in the world to be an employee) and it is the reason a large adult chain pays it's Korean workers per student.
I agree that it isn't the pension offices interpretation though, which is why I wouldn't give the pension office a single won if I could avoid it. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
| I agree that it isn't the pension offices interpretation though |
Nor NHIC's nor the tax office's. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:02 am Post subject: |
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It is the nature of government to have this confusion.
It is legal to be an Independent Contractor and meet the rules for an E2 visa with Immigration.
It is legal to be on an E2 visa and be an Independent Contractor for purposes of the NHIC, National Pension and Income tax offices.
The labor office cannot make or change the rules of these other independent departments, so whatever they think has no bearing on whether you can be an E2 independent contractor. But, they can help you get paid. |
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