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Whaling: Beginning of the end?
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Skyblue

Joined: 02 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

It also tastes quite good and is nutritious (I don't believe all the baloney about it being chalk full of mercury). I ate some last month on a trip to Tokyo -it was quite delicious, reasonably priced, and well prepared. No qualms about it.

I had some minke whale about two weeks ago here in Korea. Parts of it were pretty good. You can buy it in fish markets, but only for the whales that are accidentally killed in nets apparently.

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject:

If they're not making a serious dent in the population (and they're not), I really don't see how it's any worse than any of the other ways we torture and maim animals for our pleasure.

geldedgoat

Joined: 05 Mar 2009

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject:

West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote:

Oh, what a surprise. I knew that someone would come out with the usual, "well, people eat chicken and beef, so eating whale is okay."

I never said 'eating whale is okay.' I said that Japanese whaling should be of little concern when billions upon billions of chickens, pigs, and cows are tortured and slaughtered every year. It's beyond ridiculous to point a finger at their whaling practices when other first-world, developed nations can't be bothered to enact and enforce laws for the humane treatment of animals within their own borders.

Quote:

Just like when you mention that you are vegetarian and people say, "what about the plants?" Rolling Eyes

Yep, nothing like rolling that out to desperately make a point out of thin air

No. Plants have never been proven to feel pain or show any signs of emotional distress like chickens, pigs, and cows have, leaving that plant-centric argument with no merit (and thus entirely inappropriate as a comparison).

Quote:

And I do advocate a vegetarian/vegan diet.

Good for you. However, that's every bit as irrelevant as my morally adopted pesco-vegan diet.

Quote:

I will try to make it simple for you to understand: Eating whale is not necessary because there are plenty of other options out there that don't involve painful death.

And I'll try to make it simple for you to understand: the pain involved in bleeding out ~500 whales a year pales in comparison to the pain involved in the poorly supervised (and in some cases completely unsupervised) assembly line method of slaughter that the billions of chickens each year experience. And that's just chickens... and just chicken slaughter. The horrendous living conditions they endure almost make the trip to the slaughterhouse a thing of joy.

But I guess fighting for the humane treatment of KFC's main ingredient wouldn't sell a TV show as well, would it?

Sergio Stefanuto

Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:02 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Maybe now the can go harass the Norwegians and the Icelanders. Unfortunately, their whole whaling thing doesn't jive well with the Left's perception of progressive Scandinavia.

Absolutely typical behavior of the far left. To them, it is more indecent to eat a whale than a pig, and more indecent for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews because he hates them than for communists to kill 100 million in famine. It being more indecent for a Japanese man to kill a whale than a Norwegian is only natural, if one is a sufferer of the leftist illness.

Space Cowboy

Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Location: On the blessed hellride

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:43 am Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

Disagree - whale tastes like motor oil. You probably ate dolphin. And choosing not to believe in the mercury content is like choosing not to believe that the Earth is round. I christen thee Flat Eart Visitorq.

For me, the major issue is that they serve mercury-laden whale meat to elementary school children. Saving face makes you do some crazy s**t.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:25 am Post subject:

Space Cowboy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

Disagree - whale tastes like motor oil.

Actually it tastes a bit like beef with a seafood overtone (never drank motor oil before, so I can't compare Rolling Eyes

)... It's a bit strong if eaten raw (the raw bacon is okay though) - but fried as a steak or 'whale katsu' it's one of the best meats I've tasted. My personal favorite is whale 'tatsuta-age'. Quite delicious.

Quote:

You probably ate dolphin.

Probably not. Dolphin is not as readily available as whale (esp. in Tokyo). Why would the restaurant lie about it?

Quote:

And choosing not to believe in the mercury content is like choosing not to believe that the Earth is round. I christen thee Flat Eart Visitorq.

Well that's awfully convincing of you... Post zero evidence, and substitute mockery for an actual argument. Nice work.

I think it's just outright propaganda from the anti-whaling crowd. How many documented cases of mercury poisoning from whale meat consumption have you heard of? Care to provide any links? Most of the whales are caught in the open ocean. I'd much rather eat anything caught that way over something raised in a crowded toxic fish or shrimp farm.

Quote:

For me, the major issue is that they serve mercury-laden whale meat to elementary school children. Saving face makes you do some crazy s**t.

Yeah, because I'm sure the stuff kids in the US get fed from corporate meat-packers (Tyson Foods et al) is much, much healthier. No health risks there, I'm sure. And no, most kids in Japan are not actually fed whale meat (it's quite a rare occasion, if ever).

Anyway, did it ever occur to you that there's simply a demand for whale meat in Japan and that's why it's eaten? It has rather little to do with saving face (though having fingers pointed at them by Western countries is about the pinnacle of hypocrisy).

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:10 am Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

And choosing not to believe in the mercury content is like choosing not to believe that the Earth is round. I christen thee Flat Eart Visitorq.

I'm not sure you really have an understanding of the arguments for why there exists a high concentration of mercury in whale meat. Where the whales (or fish) or caught is absolutely irrelevant. The argument (more or less proven) is that what begins as a low dose of mercury at the bottom of the food chain becomes a higher and higher dose of mercury as you move up, given that those predators are eating all the little fish who have ingested small quantities of mercury. I'm not suggesting that you're going to contract mercury poisoning from eating the occasional whale (or swordfish or tuna), but it's hardly anti-whaling propaganda, considering that the recommendations on mercury exist for a wide range of predatory fish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:45 am Post subject:

northway wrote:

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

And choosing not to believe in the mercury content is like choosing not to believe that the Earth is round. I christen thee Flat Eart Visitorq.

I'm well aware of the argument, I'm just not so quick to believe it. Also, where it is caught is not "totally irrelevant" (obviously), because a whale feeding in the open ocean is going to be ingesting far less toxins than a whale feeding close to shore where there's more industrial pollution. Minke whales feed mainly on plankton and krill, so unless you're suggesting these tiny organisms in the open ocean are laden with mercury, then the argument defies common sense.

Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:53 am Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

The amount they catch is entirely sustainable. The Japanese whalers catch mainly Minke; around 500 per year (out of over 1 million in the southern hemisphere alone, according to the International Whaling Commission).

The Japanese estimate of 1 M is outdated and based on an IWC survey in 1990 which gave the figure of 760.000. They decied to round it up to the nearest million.
However what they ignore is that recent surveys have found less than half of that number in all areas surveyed.

In reality, nobody knows how many exist. Until we know for sure, they should stop the hunting.

Last edited by Junior on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total

Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:01 am Post subject:

Skyblue wrote:

I had some minke whale about two weeks ago here in Korea. Parts of it were pretty good. You can buy it in fish markets, but only for the whales that are accidentally killed in nets apparently.

Korea claims to not be a whaling nation.

But the reality is, Korea has the largest "accidental" bycatch of whales of any country in the world. They "accidentally" catch so many endangered Whales, and can predict how many "accidents" will happen, that they base whole economies on this annual harvest.

The truth is, Koreans leave out nets on purpose.. precisely to catch whales. The seas around Korea are absolutely covered with them.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:31 am Post subject:

Now I will disagree with the pro-whaling crowd in one thing- Whale tastes absolutely nasty. It makes silkworms look like fine cuisine. And I'm sorry but if you say someone doesn't have to eat non-endangered whale, then no one has to eat non-endangered pig. Pigs are plenty intelligent. Some are even kept as pets. The "cute" standard for determining which animals are fine for food and not is a classic sign of humanities inability to think rationally. Let the Tojos eat their non-endangered whale.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject:

Quote:

What Does Whale Taste Like?
Plus, are there different cuts of whale, like beef? Or is it all the same, like fish?
By Brian Palmer
Posted Thursday, March 11, 2010, at 6:11 PM ET
Japan's government might cancel this year's whale hunting season in response to pressure from whale conservationist group Sea Shepherd. The group has fought with Japan to halt its antiquated practice since 2005. In 2010, when a Santa Monica, Calif., sushi restaurant was accused of serving endangered-whale meat to its customers, the Explainer wondered what whale tastes like and whether it has different cuts, like beef. The column is reprinted below.

http://www.slate.com/id/2247583/

Space Cowboy

Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Location: On the blessed hellride

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

Space Cowboy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

Disagree - whale tastes like motor oil.

Actually it tastes a bit like beef with a seafood overtone (never drank motor oil before, so I can't compare Rolling Eyes

Quote:

You probably ate dolphin.

Probably not. Dolphin is not as readily available as whale (esp. in Tokyo). Why would the restaurant lie about it?

Quote:

And choosing not to believe in the mercury content is like choosing not to believe that the Earth is round. I christen thee Flat Eart Visitorq.

Quote:

For me, the major issue is that they serve mercury-laden whale meat to elementary school children. Saving face makes you do some crazy s**t.

I apologize for the snarky "Flat Earth" comment - that did come off as mockery. I do think you are being a bit proud and willfully ignorant about the mercury situation, though. Whether or not American foods are healthy for children, there is substantial proof that a) toothed whale meat contains an unhealthy amount of mercury (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030520082803.htm), and b) people who regularly consume whale have a high concentration of mercury in their systems (http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/mercury-levels-of-whale-eating-towns-residents-10-times-japan-average). It doesn't take a documented case of whale-related mercury poisoning to show that mercury is toxic to humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease).

I lived in Japan for two years. While I don't think this makes me an expert, I can say from personal experience and experience with Japanese people that whale is not some sort of delicacy. Whale is something that's entirely supply-driven: After the expedition comes in, whale meat appears in school lunches, and whale meat is sold at bargain-basement prices at grocery stores. After the reserves are used up, one rarely sees it in the grocery stores until the next expedition returns.

If you liked whale, great. Maybe you had better quality samples than I did. Just don't use one restaurant meal to support your entire argument.

jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject:

Furthermore, aquatic life with longer life spans accumulate more mercury in their bodies. Whales can get to be pretty darn old.

jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject:

Junior wrote:

Skyblue wrote:

I had some minke whale about two weeks ago here in Korea. Parts of it were pretty good. You can buy it in fish markets, but only for the whales that are accidentally killed in nets apparently.

Yeah, these fisherman that "accidentally" catch a whale are hitting the fishing lottery. Huge money.

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