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nick70100
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: |
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I agree with most of what you're saying here. Level 5 on the TOPIK is probably way beyond "proficient for everyday life". However, what you or I think doesn't matter one bit when it comes to immigration granting or denying your visa. From everything I've heard, including from people who have actually applied for and received this visa, you must show a TOPIK score to get the points. Level 1-2 is 10 points, 3-4 is 15 points, 5-6 is 20 points. It may not make sense, but that's the way it is. Call immigration and ask them yourself if you don't believe it. I don't think they're going to leave it up to individual immigration officers to evalutate your Korean ability.
I don't think taking the TOPIK is that big of a deal. It's offered 4 times per year (that's more than the KIIP which only has two sessions per year) and it costs 40,000 won. That's hardly going to send anyone into bankruptcy.
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| I mean really, would they turn someone down who had done a graduate level thesis in Korean but hadn't bothered wasting money on this worthless private company's test? Someone who walked into the immigration interview and spoke perfectly about immigration law when he only needs to be "proficient for everyday life"? |
I think you are vastly overestimating the Immigration office's ability for logical reasoning. Remember this is the same office that has seen multiple versions of my diploma, transcripts, criminal record checks, etc yet constantly needs new documents and new types of apostilles and notarizations. They like to see paper with stamps and seals on it, which is what the TOPIK score report is. If you think you can walk in there and impress them with your spoken Korean skills go ahead, but don't be surprised if they turn you down. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| nick70100 wrote: |
| . From everything I've heard, including from people who have actually applied for and received this visa, |
How many people do you know who applied for and received the F2-S points visa?
Also, were any of them E-2 visa holders? There was a question in this thread or another if anyone knew an E-2 visa holder who obtained this new visa. I don't think anyone chimed in yet.
| Quote: |
| you must show a TOPIK score to get the points. Level 1-2 is 10 points, 3-4 is 15 points, 5-6 is 20 points. |
Can you please explain what happened to the people you knew. Did they show a level 4 TOPIK test and only get 15 points? Did immigration say to them that TOPIK was their only means of evaluating Korean or did the applicant just assume that? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
I think the real question is whether the government thinks "Proficient Communication for Everyday Life" can only be proved by a level 5 TOPIK exam.
People here have introduced the idea of scoring on TOPIK exams. Nothing in any of the official data I've seen suggests a TOPIK exam is necessary. |
Right, but it's the official exam, just like Cambridge, TOEFL or Michigan. That's how you prove proficiency if you're not a native speaker.
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| I mean really, would they turn someone down who had done a graduate level thesis in Korean but hadn't bothered wasting money on this worthless private company's test? |
I completely agree, but I don't think most of the people going for the F2 points fall under that category. Besides you're also overlooking the fact that when foreigners apply to korean universities and have to take classes IN Korea, they STILL have to pass a test. So someone who did a graduate thesis in Korea would have taken the TOPIK at one point in time.
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| Someone who walked into the immigration interview and spoke perfectly about immigration law when he only needs to be "proficient for everyday life"? And saying that the TOPIK test is the only means to this type of proof ends up subsidizing the company that administers TOPIK, when any number of means could be used to show proficiency in the language. |
Well, you just never know do you? It's not like stuff in Korea is cut and dry. Just look at the mess they made with the E2 visas a couple months ago. Everyone was getting different info. What makes you think that a completely NEW type of visa category wouldn't experience the same thing  And I wouldn't be surprised if this was some way for the TOPIK to make more money either.
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| In my country, probably 15% or less of the population has a university degree. |
Really? What country are you from?
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| What I'm wondering is whether somebody who completed the KIIP culture program (and therefore had good enough Korean language ability to attend and pass classes in culture, politics, and history in Korean) would be considered "proficient for everyday life" by the immigration authorities[/b]. |
Why not call immigration? That would be the best way to get an answer, woudln't it? BUt then call the next day and see if you get the same answer. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Right, but it's the official exam, just like Cambridge, TOEFL or Michigan. That's how you prove proficiency if you're not a native speaker. |
There is also the KLPT, I don't know how that stacks up with the TOPIK or the points either:
http://www.klpt.org/english/
I guess my thinking was there are multiple tests out there, and if this was just another test, getting a high placement score might satisfy the requirements for a certain number of points in the language column as well, but perhaps not. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Right, but it's the official exam, just like Cambridge, TOEFL or Michigan. That's how you prove proficiency if you're not a native speaker. |
The official exam to whom? I prove my Korean ability to employers by speaking Korean to them. They have never heard of TOPIK in their lives.
| Quote: |
| So someone who did a graduate thesis in Korea would have taken the TOPIK at one point in time. |
Plenty of universities have their own placement tests. I'm sure a graduate school would accept sample university writing and an interview over a TOPIK test.
Yes, you're right about calling immigration. They wouldn't know since the rule is not written down. That's why I am here saying that TOPIK scores are not written down in any of the government data and therefore we probably have some leeway, depending on the people who process our applications. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
The official exam to whom? I prove my Korean ability to employers by speaking Korean to them. They have never heard of TOPIK in their lives.
Plenty of universities have their own placement tests. I'm sure a graduate school would accept sample university writing and an interview over a TOPIK test.
Yes, you're right about calling immigration. They wouldn't know since the rule is not written down. That's why I am here saying that TOPIK scores are not written down in any of the government data and therefore we probably have some leeway, depending on the people who process our applications. |
Look, CHECK colleges and universities in English speaking countries, the basic reqs are that you have level X in English and that can be proved by taking one of the exams listed on their sites.
I know since I just started an MA in Australia and as a foreign student was sent this info. I had to prove I was a native or near-native speaker by sending in transcripts from an English attended school (which I did, I'm american, born and bred)
OR
taking one of the exams.
YOu're right TOPIK isn't written down at all, but woudl you be surprised if they asked for it? Just talking to you in objective. One kimmi officer could put you at intermediate and one could put you at advanced and other at beginner becuase he doesn't like your hairstyle. why not just take the exam?
As for leeway, Korea's not really known for that, are they ? Changing rules, yes. Leeway, not really. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Look, CHECK colleges and universities in English speaking countries, the basic reqs are that you have level X in English and that can be proved by taking one of the exams listed on their sites. |
Yeah that's true and there's a lot more standardization for the English language tests. For one, people want to go to universities in English speaking countries, or work in English speaking countries. Who wants to go to Korean universities, a few Chinese people? Thus most Koreans have not heard of the test outside of maybe some admissions departments. And I know some Korean schools administer their own tests.
In any case, all of those tests have defined a certain level necessary for engaging in university study, not going about daily life socially. University students should be able to read through textbooks in their field and even produce scholarly writing. The man on the street just needs to read the newspaper, fill out banking and legal forms, etc at most. Junior high level reading and writing is probably more than enough for navigating daily life.
| Quote: |
| YOu're right TOPIK isn't written down at all, but woudl you be surprised if they asked for it? Just talking to you in objective. |
No, I wouldn't be surprised at all. But we shouldn't talk about only level 5 equaling 20 points when there isn't a written indication of that. Maybe showing a different level would satisfy the officer, or maybe a different test altogether.
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| One kimmi officer could put you at intermediate and one could put you at advanced and other at beginner becuase he doesn't like your hairstyle. why not just take the exam? |
Because I'm afraid that I'd score around level 3 or so  Regardless, I'm going to try and pass the level 5 test and I have a year to do so.
And you're right, that's the problem with ambiguity. Hopefully they will put some hard and fast expectations up.
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| As for leeway, Korea's not really known for that, are they ? Changing rules, yes. Leeway, not really. |
In a situation where there is no hard and fast rule written down, there is probably a lot of room. Take for instance a rule that is ambiguously defined, such as "proficient Korean for every day life." If the rule had been written, "As defined by TOPIK level 5 or 6 completion" then I would expect Korean immigration to give absolutely no leeway. |
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UknowsI
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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If we are going to argue about how the language points are given, I will just give my opinion that I think TOPIK scores are the best way to determine your ability. Subjective judgement from immigration officers should be avoided as much as possible, isn't that the whole point of the point system? For anyone who wants to get an F2 visa, taking the TOPIK test is a small sacrifice and something most people would like to do regardless.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
So someone who did a graduate thesis in Korea would have taken the TOPIK at one point in time.
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While I agree with your opinions, my experience somewhat different. I'm a student at a Korean uni, and the majority of the foreign students I know have not taken a TOPIK test. My uni, and other too, provides degrees with all classes in English and no Korean requirements. I would guess that 1/4 of my foreign classmates will take the test before they graduate. Most will take the test if they need it for anything specific, while quite a few never learn enough Korean to pass level 1-2. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| UknowsI wrote: |
| If we are going to argue about how the language points are given, I will just give my opinion that I think TOPIK scores are the best way to determine your ability. Subjective judgement from immigration officers should be avoided as much as possible, isn't that the whole point of the point system? For anyone who wants to get an F2 visa, taking the TOPIK test is a small sacrifice and something most people would like to do regardless. |
I agree. The question is whether TOPIK level 5 would be the minimum standard for getting 20 points. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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Welshguy
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just to let you guys know. I got my F2-99 yesterday. It is the F2 where you have to have been on an E2 Visa for over 5 years.
The F2-5 designation has been changed to the F2-99.
Off to Immigration today to pick this baby up.
Just for information sake, I have 70 points under the F2-7. Luckily, I don't have to do that Korean Integration programme. (This would have been my other option should I have not gotten the F2-99). |
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spaceman82
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Welshguy, if you don't mind sharing, could tell us a little bit more about what earned you the visa? For example, how's your Korean ability? What did you write down for your contribution to Korea essay? Also, were you on the same visa for 5 years straight (possibly with the same sponsor?) or were there gaps for visa runs or anything else? Sorry, I don't mean to ask you to reveal too much - but I'm really interested in learning how easy/difficult it is to get this visa. |
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Welshguy
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Korean ability: Passed Korean Proficiency Test TOPIK (한국어능력시험) level 2.
For the essay, I basically wrote everything that I had done in Korea, together with what my future plans were. Important to praise Korea for the opportunities that the country has given you. It was not that difficult to write. You do, however, have to have it translated into Korean.
I had 2 sponsors during my 5 years. 1st Sponsor was from January 2006 - November 2006. Second was from December 2006 - Present. I got a release letter from my 1st Sponsor and transfered the E2 Visa in Korea. There were NO GAPS or VISA RUNS. It was the same Visa, just had it transfered from 1 Sponsor to another.
Took 5 weeks to obtain this Visa. Application went in on the 14th of January.
Not that difficult to obtain if you have all your ducks in a row. |
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spaceman82
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for giving us some details. It seems that I am out of the running personally but I think this option doesn't get talked about often enough so it's good to have someone post their success story on here. |
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nick70100
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations Welshguy. I've seen this pop up around here a few times over the years, and you're the first person I've ever heard of who has been successful. It's great to hear that it's actually possible.
Most people get hung up with the 5 year thing. They take the "continuous" part very seriously. If you have any gaps in your stay, even one day that you didn't hold a valid visa you will be denied. Hard for many teachers who have worked more than one job in 5 years because it's not always easy to get the end date of one contract to match up well enough with the start date of the next contract to simply transfer the visa. Also many people often want to travel or visit family in between contracts. In my own case I was forced to leave Korea for a few weeks in 2008 when the hagwon I was working for unexpectedly went out of business and cancelled my visa.
I'm also a little curious about what you wrote about in the essay. Will basic things suffice? (I have enjoyed my job. I learned a lot about Korean culture. I love kimchi) Or are they really looking for people who have made serious contributions? (I volunteer at an orphange 20 hours a week and donate half my paycheck to help North Korean refugees). These are absurdly extreme examples, I know, but I'm genuinely curious.
I've also read before that you need some sort of sponsor or person in a high position to vouch for you or write a recomendation or something similar. Who did you get to do this for you? |
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