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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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@ tehdee --- This has already been discussed if you've been following this thread. I drove to my neighboring state and got an apostille.
If you use the walk in service they don't ask and don't care. If your mailing from another state they might look twice.
Most states that issue apostilles have no idea that other states do not. At least in Kansas they assumed Missouri issued apostilles. But in my case the Kansas SOS was closer than my states SOS, so they just assumed I came there out of convenience.
Last edited by Riker on Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mimi belle wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Ugh this is such a pain. Now my friend can't take my FBI check to the NYS dept of state office in downtown Manhattan for me (though he can go for my diploma copy). I'm just going to pay one of those companies 200 bucks to have it done in DC for me. They have about a 4 day turnaround.
Thanks for the heads up, OP. I would never have thought that my state didn't provide this service. What a joke. The UN is there. You'd think they'd handle this kind of thing! |
No, I think NY does apostille.
NY State actually has two apostille offices. One is in Albany and one in NYC. I asked the NY county clerk if the one in Manhattan will apostille an FBI clearance, and they said they would but it has to be notarized first. |
If anybody can verify this who has actually got an apostille I will update the list.
If they say "NO" on the phone it generally means no. When they say yes, I would be a little skeptical until your actually in the SOS office and the official looks at the document.
If a particular state is unreliable in issuing apostilles I think its better to consider it a "NO" state. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'll call tonight and let you know. I know that they do apostille, but so far the list on this thread says that they don't apostille federal checks.
I'd love to not have to spend another 200 bucks and have to deal with a 3rd party for my FBI check, since my friend is already going to go to the NYS office for my dipoloma copy's apostille.
I'll keep you informed. |
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tehdee
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Riker wrote: |
@ tehdee --- This has already been discussed if you've been following this thread. I drove to my neighboring state and got an apostille.
If you use the walk in service they don't ask and don't care. If your mailing from another state they might look twice.
Most states that issue apostilles have no idea that other states do not. At least in Kansas they assumed Missouri issued apostilles. But in my case the Kansas SOS was closer than my states SOS, so they just assumed I came there out of convenience. |
thank you. i have been following the thread but only saw your recount as opposed to more posters having done something similar.
you can also add kentucky to the list of states that will definitely NOT even touch a federal document. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Riker wrote: |
It's not verifying the document, its verifying the notary's seal and affidavit are indeed registered by the State.
I received an apostille from both Kansas and the US dept of State as I had two checks done.
Korean immigration will accept either. |
The actual point is that even if you find a state-licensed notary who will/can notarize a federal document, the intrinsic value of that notarization is without value, and an apostille on it is likewise not actually valid, concerning the document itself, and the document itself is the actual point of the Hague Convention of 1961. I could easily duplicate the CBC I got from the FBI, get it notarized in any state that would allow it, get a state's apostille on it, because what the hell do they know about the authenticity of a federal document?
If, as you say, Korean Immigration will accept a state's apostille on an FBI CBC, it's only because they do not realize that they should not, but they will eventually figure that out.
If you order your FBI CBC properly, you don't need to get it notarized. When you order it, and tell them you need to get an apostille on it, it comes with an embossed stamp and the signature of an offical who is on record with the US Dept. of State as being authorized to sign it.
I say again, technically, an apostille from a state of a document issued by the federal govt. is not valid, and it's only because Korea doesn't (yet) understand this (nor, apparently, the states that do issue an apostille for it) that allows anyone to get by with this. Eventually Immi will figure it out, so why take the chance? Get it done properly to avoid grief. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| davemon wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| Texas WILL NOT DO IT, I emailed the SOS in Austin and they flat out told me to send my FBI check to DC. I also went to the SOS office in Austin and they wouldnt do it |
How recently had you attempted to get this notarized in Austin, TX? |
December 21st, 2010 also emailed them in november about this, thought walking in they would do it
but like somebody here said they told me since it was a federal seal and signature and not a notary from the state of texas then they couldnt do it.
they told me it would like trying to get my undergrad diploma apostilled since it was from ohio, i would have to get an ohio notary to do it and follow ohio's procedures they wouldnt recognize an ohio notary |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| Riker wrote: |
It's not verifying the document, its verifying the notary's seal and affidavit are indeed registered by the State.
I received an apostille from both Kansas and the US dept of State as I had two checks done.
Korean immigration will accept either. |
The actual point is that even if you find a state-licensed notary who will/can notarize a federal document, the intrinsic value of that notarization is without value, and an apostille on it is likewise not actually valid, concerning the document itself, and the document itself is the actual point of the Hague Convention of 1961. I could easily duplicate the CBC I got from the FBI, get it notarized in any state that would allow it, get a state's apostille on it, because what the hell do they know about the authenticity of a federal document?
If, as you say, Korean Immigration will accept a state's apostille on an FBI CBC, it's only because they do not realize that they should not, but they will eventually figure that out.
If you order your FBI CBC properly, you don't need to get it notarized. When you order it, and tell them you need to get an apostille on it, it comes with an embossed stamp and the signature of an offical who is on record with the US Dept. of State as being authorized to sign it.
I say again, technically, an apostille from a state of a document issued by the federal govt. is not valid, and it's only because Korea doesn't (yet) understand this (nor, apparently, the states that do issue an apostille for it) that allows anyone to get by with this. Eventually Immi will figure it out, so why take the chance? Get it done properly to avoid grief. |
Kansas uses the same test for authenticity as the US dept of state. It must have the signature and seal present.
It is the same principle in which states issue apostilles to private university diplomas. Unlike public universities, they are not verified nor checked for accuracy in anyway. The apostille is issued to verify the notary.
There is no law against states issuing apostilles to federal documents anywhere, not in the Hague convention or in American law. |
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emmahearst
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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You can do a state or federal apostille. It will be accepted by Korean Immigration (K-Immi).
Just make sure when you submit the document to the Korean Immigration / recruiter, it's the original FBI check + state or DoS apostille. Again, all they're looking for is the FBI check with your name on it and an apostille. That's all they're looking for. There's not 1 way to doing apostilles, you just have to know the rules and know how. It's like,
1+1=2
1+2-1=2
A friend had submitted a state apostille + Original FBI check and perfectly accepted by Korean Immigration. The dumb part was Korean Immigration took off the staple and made her a copy. The staple binds the documents to make it legit, but I also understand why Korean Immigration had done that. The purpose of the submitting docs to them is so they can clear you. Well they clear you, they can do whatever they want to the docs. I'm pretty sure, they probably shred the docs anyway.
People that say it is not accepted are just making "assumptions" that it will be rejected. None have tried it if you read their comments. However, there are lots of people in South Korea and people on the forum stating that state apostille are fine. It have been accepted, so no need to worry.
I guess at the end of the day, people that are submitting documents will have their doubts, and that's perfectly understandable. Again, if you're trying to meet deadlines, do a state apostille, it's a lot faster and people have confirmed it's been accepted. If you have some kind of issue with that and have time, do a DoS apostille, but just know you'll be waiting, while others are getting their docs together and will be on their way to South Korea.
Anyway, Korean Immigration shouldn't reject it because both ways you're submitting the "Original FBI Check". I don't think people will submit copies of FBI check because when you copy the document it will have the words, "unauthorized copy" all over the document.
| Riker wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
| Riker wrote: |
It's not verifying the document, its verifying the notary's seal and affidavit are indeed registered by the State.
I received an apostille from both Kansas and the US dept of State as I had two checks done.
Korean immigration will accept either. |
The actual point is that even if you find a state-licensed notary who will/can notarize a federal document, the intrinsic value of that notarization is without value, and an apostille on it is likewise not actually valid, concerning the document itself, and the document itself is the actual point of the Hague Convention of 1961. I could easily duplicate the CBC I got from the FBI, get it notarized in any state that would allow it, get a state's apostille on it, because what the hell do they know about the authenticity of a federal document?
If, as you say, Korean Immigration will accept a state's apostille on an FBI CBC, it's only because they do not realize that they should not, but they will eventually figure that out.
If you order your FBI CBC properly, you don't need to get it notarized. When you order it, and tell them you need to get an apostille on it, it comes with an embossed stamp and the signature of an offical who is on record with the US Dept. of State as being authorized to sign it.
I say again, technically, an apostille from a state of a document issued by the federal govt. is not valid, and it's only because Korea doesn't (yet) understand this (nor, apparently, the states that do issue an apostille for it) that allows anyone to get by with this. Eventually Immi will figure it out, so why take the chance? Get it done properly to avoid grief. |
Kansas uses the same test for authenticity as the US dept of state. It must have the signature and seal present.
It is the same principle in which states issue apostilles to private university diplomas. Unlike public universities, they are not verified nor checked for accuracy in anyway. The apostille is issued to verify the notary.
There is no law against states issuing apostilles to federal documents anywhere, not in the Hague convention or in American law. |
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apgujohn
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
Wow. There is so much BS floating around here about Apostilles, it's crazy and scary. Are there really States in the US that will take it upon themselves to verify a federal document? Really? Because this is a logical impossibility. No US state can verify that any federal document is legitimate. If SK Immi is taking such verifications as real, that's a bad on SK Immi. If you've gotten a job this way, you're lucky.
An apostille can only be issued, legitimately, by a government agency that has authority OVER the agency issuing the document. No US state can legally certify (by way of an apostille legally recognized under the Hague Treaty of 1961 that covers this issue) any federally issued document. Period. It's a logical impossibility. Some states may think they can, and some offices of the Korean Immigration service may accept such "apostilles," but the legal fact is, NO US STATE CAN AFFIX AN APOSTILLE TO AN FBI CBC. Anyone who has gotten a job on the basis of an FBI CBC that has been given an apostille by some state is VERY effing lucking that the person receiving the CBC was clueless.
To address some other questions on this thread, yes. there is a walk-in service in DC to get an apostille on an FBI check. It took me a three-hour drive and a ten-minute office visit.
That said, when you send your request for a CBC to the FBI, you must state that you need to get an apostille on it. If you do not state that, you will not get the stamp or signature required for the US Dept. of State to be able to certify that it is, in fact, a real FBI CBC.
How long it takes to do all this via post from SK, I have no idea. BUT, any State that claims to be able to give you an apostille for a Federal document is full of crap, and any SK Immi official who will accept that is a bigger idiot than you are. Relying on stories from people who've gotten hired from a state's apostille on their FBI CBC is a crap shoot. I'm not saying no one has been hired after getting their federal check's being given a state's apostille. I'm just saying they were lucky that the person receiving that document had no idea about what the Hague Convention actually says.
NO U.S. STATE CAN LEGALLY CERTIFY A FEDERALLY ISSUED DOCUMENT. Pursue that path at your own peril.
Das |
I've already posted on this topic, but anyway.... copy & paste. Daskalos is flat wrong. I've had a state office apostille a federal document. My understanding is that different states have different policies with regards to EVERYTHING. My state has no hangups about slapping an apostille on a federal document. I think I just heard a member of the tea party shout: "STATES' RIGHTS!!!" |
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socky_bomb
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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didn't read through the whole thread, so not sure if this has been said or not...
but alabama does apostilles at the secretary of states office in montgomery. |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok thanks, sweet home Alabama has been added. |
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rockymtn
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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daskalos- you do have a point. Allowing states to apostille federal documents is backwards but DC allows it to happen. The lady at the Kansas SOS even told me she had new rules from DC to apostille.
marsavalanche -- I think you best bet to go ahead and mail it in to DC. I think I read that someone didn't have their cbc stamped but still sent to DC and got the apostille. Can you try to walk it in and see what they'll do. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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I called the NYS apostille office in lower Manhattan last night, and the office worker confirmed that they don't apostille federal documents. She said that I could have a copy of it notarized and that they'd apostille that, but I'm not sure if that would work, as the FBI check needs to be sealed and signed, so I'm just going to hire one of those speedy apostille services to take it to DC (turnaround of about 4 or 5 days).
Such a pain! |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Is it the original FBI background check that should be apostilled by the state or is it a notarized copy of the check that gets apostilled? Does it matter as far as Korean immigration is concerned? I think my state is willing to attach an apostille to anything that has been notarized by a state licensed notary. So even if they weren't willing to apostille an original federal document they would still be willing to attach an apostille to a notarized copy to certify the qualifications of the notary. At least that's the way it worked with my degree which was obtained in another state.
Last edited by Kepler on Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think most states notarize an affidavit which both of you sign, then the notary stamps the affidavit. It is then included with the apostille.
So, you have the top page which is the apostille, then the second page with the sworn affidavit and then the third page which is the FBI background check.
I would post a picture but dave's has no native picture host.
Last edited by Riker on Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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