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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
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| Chris, She is a Korean Citizen and Korean passport holder. SK wouldn't activate her without a Korean ID card which she did not have. She has residency in the U.S (Greencard) and had to relenquish her Korean ID card upon moving to the U.S, which I understand is the standard protocol. |
This makes no sense at all. A greencard isn't citizenship and wouldn't invalidate her korean citizenship, which is why she still had her passport. The ID should continue to function perfectly fine. Did anyone even try keying in her old ID number? |
Yes we did actually, we attempted to use her ID number but SK wanted a copy of her physical ID card which she could not produce because when you emigrate to the U.S the Korean government takes the Korean person's ID card.
I know you weren't trying to be rude, but I know how to do my job. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Drew10 wrote: |
Yes we did actually, we attempted to use her ID number but SK wanted a copy of her physical ID card which she could not produce because when you emigrate to the U.S the Korean government takes the Korean person's ID card.
I know you weren't trying to be rude, but I know how to do my job. |
But how would they do that?
Unless she just voluntarily handed it in. When she leaves Korea they have no idea where she's going.
Seems rather odd. |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| Drew10 wrote: |
Yes we did actually, we attempted to use her ID number but SK wanted a copy of her physical ID card which she could not produce because when you emigrate to the U.S the Korean government takes the Korean person's ID card.
I know you weren't trying to be rude, but I know how to do my job. |
But how would they do that?
Unless she just voluntarily handed it in. When she leaves Korea they have no idea where she's going.
Seems rather odd. |
When my wife (then girlfriend), came to the U.S on the fiancee visa they took her ID as well, and she told me it's pretty common for the government to take your ID if you're moving out of the country. I agree with you, it's an odd regulation. |
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s4yunkim
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Crossmr, I understand your concerns and I will try to address each part of your post as well as I can:
| crossmr wrote: |
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| This is not true. You can get a prepaid line of service with just a passport and a Korean bank account. The phone line will be valid for 90 days from date of activation, which is the maximum allowed stay in Korea without a visa. After that, under immigration law, you will have to have a visa and an alien registration card, with which you can either renew your prepaid line, or switch over to a postpaid line of service. |
This is no true. Canadians are allowed 6 months of visa free stay and are not required to get an ARC if they're here for more than 3 months during that time.
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Oops, sorry, I was speaking from an American point of view. What you said is true, but my point was that you can still get a prepaid phone that you can continue to use after 90 days, without an ARC.
| crossmr wrote: |
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Hope that clears some things up |
Not entirely Chris. While 7 stores is great, Korea is more than central Seoul and not everyone is in Seoul or near these 7 stores. What even possessed you guys to put like 3 of your stores all within walking distance of each other? Spread them out a bit.
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The locations of the stores were not my decision; in fact, they were already in place before I started working here. Also, these are not "foreigner-only" stores, but rather stores that have a proven track record with us and also staff people who can speak English, and often a few other languages, that we have designated as "Global Stores". No, not every foreigner lives in Seoul, but if you were going to start rolling out stores to cater to a specific market, wouldn't you start with the area of highest concentration?
As for the 3 being near each other (by which I assume you mean the Gwanghwamun / City Hall area), I would have to guess that they were grouped together that way because of the high traffic that runs through that area. Even with the three grouped together like that, the Gwanghwamun store is still overwhelmed on a daily basis. Again, I wasn't the one to make the decision, but I can understand why it was done that way. We are just starting to roll out programs for our expat customers, so it will take some time to expand our coverage. I'd also like to point out that LG has 1 location that offers similar service, and SK currently has none.
| crossmr wrote: |
What exactly is the issue preventing foreigners from going into any store and getting a contract?
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Depends what you mean by "contract".
The process of buying a phone is different in Korea than in most western countries. In the US, you either buy a phone at a 2-year contracted discount price (For example, $200 for an iPhone 4 16gb as opposed to the $500-600 or so it would normally be), with the assumption that if you break the contract, you will pay an early termination fee of up to $375 or so, which essentially is paying back the discount that you had received.
In Korea, you get into 2 "contracts". When one buys a phone and opens a new line of service, the cost of the phone is divided over a 2 year "installment plan" (so, for example, a $600 iPhone would be $25 a month over 2 years).
You then also sign a "service contract", which gives you your rate plan, but also a monthly discount on the cost of the phone (so you might get a $15 a month discount, and pay $10 a month for your phone rather than $25). Saving $15 per month for 24 months = $360, and so that $600 iPhone is actually $240.
The reason I explain this is that, again, the word "contract" refers to two different things here. So to answer your question:
"What exactly is the issue preventing foreigners from going into any store and getting a contract?"
If by "contract", you are referring to a line of service, then the answer is "nothing". There is never an issue with a foreign customer being provisioned a line of service. You can even choose from pretty much any rate plan that a Korean citizen can. This is why it's never been an issue to either buy a phone by paying the cost of it upfront, or get a used phone and activate it on the network.
If by "contract" you mean an installment plan, the reason is that an installment plan is essentially a no-interest, 2-year line of credit. You are given a 800,000 KRW phone, but you pay us back a little at a time over the next 2 years.
This process carries with it an obvious risk of non-payment. With a Korean citizen, non-payment means their credit scores are affected, and since they have a low likelihood of skipping the country for the purpose of stealing a cell phone, we have ways to deal with that. At the very least, not being able to sign up for things under your own name because of bad credit can be a pain.
However, it becomes a different story when offering a line of credit to a foreigner. How does it make sense to offer a line of credit to someone who may or may not even be in the country a week/month/year from now?
Generally, it doesn't. That's why the banks generally don't give credit cards to foreigners without a security deposit. But if we follow that model, we still get complaints. "Why do I have to pay a 200,000 KRW security deposit just to get a phone?"
If you call AT&T or Verizon in the US and ask them if it's possible to get a cell phone as a foreigner, and they'll say no matter what you have to have a $500/$600 deposit before being allowed a postpaid plan. By working with the insurance companies that back us as a corporation, we've been able to open the list of visa holders who can get an installment plan to cover just about everyone, and as soon as we did, we saw a huge number of people who bought an expensive phone, then never paid their bills.
Then we have people with visas that are only valid for 6 months / 1 year, such as international students and English teachers. How much sense would it make to issue a 2-year installment plan to someone who isn't legally allowed to stay for more than 6 months/1 year? Even if they planned to renew their visas, we really don't have a way of knowing what will happen when that time comes around.
Currently, international students cannot get installment plans. We worked hard to be able to get an installment plan for E-2 visa holders, but when you have topics on Dave's where people are asking "Hey I just got unjustly fired from my hagwon and I'm gonna stick it to Korea by skipping the country without paying my bills. Can I get away with it?", it's not very helpful to the higher ups that allow us to do this.
| crossmr wrote: |
Obviously KT has the infrastructure to do this.
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So... are you implying that we "obviously" have the infrastructure to do this, but we're ...refusing to?
I would think the more obvious "fact" is that:
It is in the interest of the company to get as many subscribers as possible. Foreign, or not.
We're trying to make it easy for foreigners in Korea to get what they want/need, but we also have to work in the confines of Korean Telecommunications and Financial Laws, as well as assessments of risk to the company as a whole. Those decisions are not made our team, but we are the ones working to make things work.
| crossmr wrote: |
Half the paperwork that was given to me at the global store was in Korean anyway, and it was paperwork. It wasn't even done on the computer at the time.
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We're still in the process of getting all the paperwork translated, but that takes time. Again, this program is in it's infancy, and we're the first ones to even attempt such a thing in Korea.
All paperwork is required by the Korean government, and portions must be filled in by the subscriber's own handwriting in order to be valid, as per Korean law. The same laws require us to scan copies of them into the system to be kept for records. Whether that scanning was done right away or later, it was done.
| crossmr wrote: |
Now I realize at some level that those stores may not have English speaking staff, but it doesn't explain why people who speak adequate korean or who go with a Korean spouse/friend are being turned away from these stores.
I've heard from some expats that they were able to get service at stores that weren't part of the global stores but I've also heard of people getting turned away store after store after store.
So I know that non-global stores are more than capable of processing the paperwork since some expats have gotten it done.
Please clear up what is going on here.
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Being able to speak Korean, or having a translator with you doesn't necessarily mean that the store you visit has ever done it before. 90% of cell phone stores in Korea are franchisers who purchase phones from the carrier and resell them, and it's the store that's responsible for errors, problems, or non-payments, if and when they occur. So although they bear a KT logo on their store (especially the ones that have all three carrier logos on their store sign), they are not KT. They are private franchisers who choose what they want to sell in their stores, and decide what risks to take when creating service contracts. Although it is in all of our interests to sell to everyone, it is their own private business, and we can't force them to sell. This is one of the reasons we are rolling out global stores; the global stores (with a few exceptions) are run directly by KT and are staffed to speak English.
| crossmr wrote: |
Oh, and please add another way to contact you through the blog. Not everyone has or wants to use twitter just to contact you. Add a comment field or at least an e-mail address to the blog please.
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You can always call our foreign language customer service center by dialing 1583 (toll free) from a KT phone, or (02) 2190-1180 for most inquries. The blog, although called a "blog", is an informational page meant to provide foriegn customers with a central source of information. Currently (aside from the call center), there are only 2 people heading the effort in making things possible for foreigners. Of the two, I am the one who speaks native English, so here I am, writing blogs, answering tweets, auditing complaints, and now writing on Dave's ESL, while trying to get the rest of my workload done.
Given unlimited resources and no legal restrictions, we could go and hire a bunch of people to work under us, and I'm sure the situation would be a lot easier than it is at the moment. I realize that things are still difficult for foreign customers (I went through the same, if not more hoops when I first got here), but we're working on it. If you, or anyone have constructive comments or ideas to contribute, we're always listening.
This point of this reply post is not to attack what you've said, but to give further explanation on what's going on, and to ask that you realize that there are a huge number of legal and corporate constraints, as well as a historical record of risk, that we are battling against, before saying things like "What possessed us to put a bunch of stores together" or that we "obviously have the infrastructure" but seem to be neglecting our customers.
--Chris |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Depends what you mean by "contract". |
What I meant here, was what you addressed further down. I wanted to know what it was that was stopping every KT store from processing the paperwork the same as the global stores were doing for expats living here.
I tried three stores here near Konkuk before I went over to the one near jongno (not the main one).
Two of them actually went to their computers, punched in my ID and then said they couldn't do it. Now, if you're telling me that this only down to a judgment call based on their risk assessment and not an actual infrastructure problem (in that the computer was unable to handle my foreign ID as was a problem I think in the past) then it gives me a clearer picture of what is going on there.
| Quote: |
| So... are you implying that we "obviously" have the infrastructure to do this, but we're ...refusing to? |
I was referring to the ability of any random non-global store to actually process the paperwork and issue a phone to a foreigner. Many expats go into random shops to try and get a phone because they perhaps live far away from one of the global stores and are often told "We can't do it for foreigners go to a global store". When in reality what they mean is "we don't want to do it for foreigners" or "we don't want to take that risk".
Perhaps a little training and education about visa types (for example F2/4/5s often indicate longer term residence) to the various stores might make things more accessible without needing to create more global stores.
| Quote: |
We're still in the process of getting all the paperwork translated, but that takes time. Again, this program is in it's infancy, and we're the first ones to even attempt such a thing in Korea.
All paperwork is required by the Korean government, and portions must be filled in by the subscriber's own handwriting in order to be valid, as per Korean law. The same laws require us to scan copies of them into the system to be kept for records. Whether that scanning was done right away or later, it was done. |
My point with this was that if there was a computer issue with inputting foreigners information at a random KT store, the paperwork itself could have been forwarded to a global store to be inputted or something like that. But that doesn't seem to be the case as you addressed.
| Quote: |
| Being able to speak Korean, or having a translator with you doesn't necessarily mean that the store you visit has ever done it before. 90% of cell phone stores in Korea are franchisers who purchase phones from the carrier and resell them, and it's the store that's responsible for errors, problems, or non-payments, if and when they occur. So although they bear a KT logo on their store (especially the ones that have all three carrier logos on their store sign), they are not KT. They are private franchisers who choose what they want to sell in their stores, and decide what risks to take when creating service contracts. Although it is in all of our interests to sell to everyone, it is their own private business, and we can't force them to sell. This is one of the reasons we are rolling out global stores; the global stores (with a few exceptions) are run directly by KT and are staffed to speak English. |
So does this mean that even if a store is not a global store, but is owned directly by KT we should be able to get full service at those locations, perhaps with the aid of a translator if it was required and/or doing the business completely in Korean. If so, where can one find a list of the locations that KT actually owns?
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| Of the two, I am the one who speaks native English, so here I am, writing blogs, answering tweets, auditing complaints, and now writing on Dave's ESL, while trying to get the rest of my workload done. |
We certainly appreciate it. I hope in the future we'll see English templates for a lot more things getting done. Like standard emails and text messages.
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| that we "obviously have the infrastructure" but seem to be neglecting our customers. |
That wasn't meant as an attack, I was drawing a conclusion about service at the local non-global KT stores trying to determine what it was preventing them from giving full service to foreigners. You've now clarified what that is.
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| Given unlimited resources and no legal restrictions, we could go and hire a bunch of people to work under us, and I'm sure the situation would be a lot easier than it is at the moment. I realize that things are still difficult for foreign customers (I went through the same, if not more hoops when I first got here), but we're working on it. If you, or anyone have constructive comments or ideas to contribute, we're always listening. |
Yes, in a perfect world of course. I actually found the process of getting my iPhone to be fairly easy. I went in, took about 10 minutes reserving it, and then about an hour when I got back. The guy who did it a month later when the phone came in was on his first day, but he spoke English well and did a good job. One thing I might recommend is making sure all the various KT apps are translated into English. I'm sure it's not a huge priority, but I think most of the content is static, so once it's done, it's done. I've used the 콕콕 program for reporting problems, it's a handy little program and I hope more people use it, but I've found one major difficulty with it. It can't lock a location while you're moving. I always get extremely bad 3G service on the subway between guui and konkuk, but I can't report or test that area, because it won't let me lock the location while it's moving. The 3G basically becomes unusable between those 2 stations every day, regardless of the time of day. I can only report it once I've stopped moving in either station, but there, the 3G works okay. |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Chris,
What's stopping KT from offering a general 1-year installment plan? This would generate much more sales. I've had a few customers who were turned off by the 2-year installment plan based on the fact they were only going to be here for 1 year. Military, E2's, G1's and more could benefit from that. I've discussed this with a few of my customers and they've said that even paying a bit extra per month for the phone wouldn't be a problem if they could get their installment plan on a 1-year contract. |
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s4yunkim
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Crossmr:
Thanks for clearing up your previous post and providing your feedback-
As an alternative to the app, you can contact our customer service center 1583 (from your phone) and tell them you need to report an issue with service quality (known as a "통화품실문제" tong-hwa-poom-jil-mun-jae), and they will handle that for you.
Drew10:
I don't make the contract and the rate plans, but I'm sure they have their reasons for what they have. If you think that a 1 year contract would be beneficial, you can contact your district marketing manager and get the ball rolling. ^^
Have a good weekend all~ |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Well Chris, after a few months of great service. It crapped out tonight. I've been unable to use my phone for a few hours and a second KT phone I have here also doesn't work. I managed to get through to 114 but they were unaware of any problem. They were going to call me back but the service has cut out again. |
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Morticae
Joined: 06 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:33 am Post subject: |
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I was checking out the KT Expat blog, but I don't live near a KT Global Store. There is a link for buying phones online (and service?), but the iPhone 4 isn't one of them, only 3GS! Is it possible to buy the iPhone 4 online?
Can I grab a Korean friend and head to any KT store and pick up an iPhone 4 on a 2 year installment plan (I'm 6 months into a 1 year E-2, plans of renewing)? |
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andyrider
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jhicks99 wrote: |
The shops are always hit or miss (mostly miss) when it comes to Englishy.
LG Telecom is the best for pre-paid IMO. You're right, their operators are excellent and can resolve most issues for you (such as re-enabling the device if you haven't used it for 3 months). Koreans always tell me that LG has the worst network but I had ZERO issues with the service and the call quality was always crystal clear.
Now I'm with SK as I jumped on the Galaxy S bandwagon (I'm off contract as the phone has been paid off). I can't do anything to my plan without a Korean helping me. That said once you're setup there's very little to do and the esl forums will keep you up to date if there's any significant plan changes you should know about (such as the switch to offering unlimited data). They always send me an image of my bill every month to my phone and it's always exactly what I expect to be paying. If you can have a Korean friend walk you through the sign up process then I'd go to the carrier that has the phone and price plan you want, once you're setup there's very little reason to ever deal with them. |
Can you please tell me regarding the service, so far, with SK such as reception and voice clarity? |
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andyrider
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| Well Chris, after a few months of great service. It crapped out tonight. I've been unable to use my phone for a few hours and a second KT phone I have here also doesn't work. I managed to get through to 114 but they were unaware of any problem. They were going to call me back but the service has cut out again. |
Hi, for that matter, could you please let me know (despite the issue you've experienced) how the KT service has been with reception and voice clarity?
Thanks |
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nstick13
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Some info on the KT Plans for smart phones:
1. It's generally affordable. But...
2. The contracts are for 2 years.
If you opt out after the first year you would owe whatever the balance is on the entire price of the phone, or after one year of a two year contract, you'll owe half the price of the phone. This works out, though, to you paying about $500 for a smart phone (I calculated the iPhone 4 specifically) and getting to use it for one year. This is assuming you'd be paying for the cell phone service whether you were buying a new phone or using an old one.
The global stores are very helpful, and I'd have gotten a phone when I was there this weekend, but the Olleh system was down and they couldn't activate it for me. Maybe this weekend or next? Or maybe a piano?
Anyways, good deal if you'll be around for two years, OK deal if you'll only be here for 1. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| andyrider wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| Well Chris, after a few months of great service. It crapped out tonight. I've been unable to use my phone for a few hours and a second KT phone I have here also doesn't work. I managed to get through to 114 but they were unaware of any problem. They were going to call me back but the service has cut out again. |
Hi, for that matter, could you please let me know (despite the issue you've experienced) how the KT service has been with reception and voice clarity?
Thanks |
I had SK immediately before getting my iPhone. I find them to be more or less the same. I can't compare 3G/data because my SK phone wasn't a smart phone so I didn't really do much data stuff with it. |
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andyrider
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| andyrider wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| Well Chris, after a few months of great service. It crapped out tonight. I've been unable to use my phone for a few hours and a second KT phone I have here also doesn't work. I managed to get through to 114 but they were unaware of any problem. They were going to call me back but the service has cut out again. |
Hi, for that matter, could you please let me know (despite the issue you've experienced) how the KT service has been with reception and voice clarity?
Thanks |
I had SK immediately before getting my iPhone. I find them to be more or less the same. I can't compare 3G/data because my SK phone wasn't a smart phone so I didn't really do much data stuff with it. |
Thanks! |
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tehdee
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| i was on sk last year with a blackberry bold. data transfers blew my canadian cell carrier away. sk had a great english customer support line, and besides being a little pricey, i was pleased overall with the service. |
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