|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Caffeinated wrote: |
From the same NYT article:
| Quote: |
The American arrested in Pakistan after shooting two men at a crowded traffic stop was part of a covert, C.I.A.-led team of operatives conducting surveillance on militant groups deep inside the country, according to American government officials. . . . Mr. Davis has worked for years as a C.I.A. contractor, including time at Blackwater Worldwide, the controversial private security firm (now called Xe) that Pakistanis have long viewed as symbolizing a culture of American gun slinging overseas.
The New York Times had agreed to temporarily withhold information about Mr. Davis�s ties to the agency at the request of the Obama administration, which argued that disclosure of his specific job would put his life at risk. Several foreign news organizations have disclosed some aspects of Mr. Davis�s work with the C.I.A. |
|
And your point is.... |
I think his point is threefold:
1. He is supporting your contention that the idea this guy is a 'diplomat' is "major BS;"
2. He is confirming SW's contention that he is a CIA operative; and
3. He didn't bold the second paragraph above, but I have, reiterating the regular collusion of media, especially The New York Times, with the CIA as documented by reporter Carl Bernstein in THE CIA AND THE MEDIA: How Americas Most Powerful News Media Worked Hand in Glove with the Central Intelligence Agency and Why the Church Committee Covered It Up, about which there is more information on page one of the JFK sticky thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://in.news.yahoo.com/cia-spy-davis-giving-nuclear-bomb-material-al-20110219-224833-452.html
| Quote: |
London, Feb 20(ANI): Double murder-accused US official Raymond Davis has been found in possession of top-secret CIA documents, which point to him or the feared American Task Force 373 (TF373) operating in the region, providing Al-Qaeda terrorists with "nuclear fissile material" and "biological agents," according to a report.
Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is warning that the situation on the sub-continent has turned "grave" as it appears that open warfare is about to break out between Pakistan and the United States, The European Union Times reports.
The SVR warned in its report that the apprehension of 36-year-old Davis, who shot dead two Pakistani men in Lahore last month, had fuelled this crisis.
According to the report, the combat skills exhibited by Davis, along with documentation taken from him after his arrest, prove that he is a member of US' TF373 black operations unit currently operating in the Afghan War Theatre and Pakistan's tribal areas, the paper said.
While the US insists that Davis is one of their diplomats, and the two men he killed were robbers, Pakistan says that the duo were ISI agents sent to follow him after it was discovered that he had been making contact with al Qaeda, after his cell phone was tracked to the Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan, the paper said.
The most ominous point in this SVR report is "Pakistan's ISI stating that top-secret CIA documents found in Davis's possession point to his, and/or TF373, providing to al Qaeda terrorists "nuclear fissile material" and "biological agents", which they claim are to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse," the paper added. (ANI) |
What % BS? What % true? Civilization needs to know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
http://in.news.yahoo.com/cia-spy-davis-giving-nuclear-bomb-material-al-20110219-224833-452.html
| Quote: |
London, Feb 20(ANI): Double murder-accused US official Raymond Davis has been found in possession of top-secret CIA documents, which point to him or the feared American Task Force 373 (TF373) operating in the region, providing Al-Qaeda terrorists with "nuclear fissile material" and "biological agents," according to a report.
Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is warning that the situation on the sub-continent has turned "grave" as it appears that open warfare is about to break out between Pakistan and the United States, The European Union Times reports.
The SVR warned in its report that the apprehension of 36-year-old Davis, who shot dead two Pakistani men in Lahore last month, had fuelled this crisis.
According to the report, the combat skills exhibited by Davis, along with documentation taken from him after his arrest, prove that he is a member of US' TF373 black operations unit currently operating in the Afghan War Theatre and Pakistan's tribal areas, the paper said.
While the US insists that Davis is one of their diplomats, and the two men he killed were robbers, Pakistan says that the duo were ISI agents sent to follow him after it was discovered that he had been making contact with al Qaeda, after his cell phone was tracked to the Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan, the paper said.
The most ominous point in this SVR report is "Pakistan's ISI stating that top-secret CIA documents found in Davis's possession point to his, and/or TF373, providing to al Qaeda terrorists "nuclear fissile material" and "biological agents", which they claim are to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse," the paper added. (ANI) |
What % BS? What % true? Civilization needs to know. |
See what I just wrote in Why something like WikiLeaks might be a good idea?
| Quote: |
| Apparently, they are bent on unleashing a world war, and a destabilized Pakistan fits the bill nicely. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pakistan's ISI is claiming the CIA agent was pawning off nuclear material to Al Qaeda . . . and ISI knows why: "to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse."
100% bullshit. There will be some on this forum who will lap this up, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I take the ISI and any paper that reports the ISI musings to be exactly equal to the NYT and state dept in trustworthiness.
Kuros. This is the (permanent) government that has killed 1 million people on a lie in Iraq. The government that allows banksters to rape the country apart. Is it such a leap to think they might want a nuclear event in Pakistan/India/Afghanistan to justify permanent occupation? I don't think so.
It may not be the American government anymore. Have you considered that?
Last edited by mises on Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| Pakistan's ISI is claiming the CIA agent was pawning off nuclear material to Al Qaeda . . . and ISI knows why: "to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse." |
It may be bullshit (and I'd wager it is), but I can also see how US activities over the years could lend such a report the whiff of credibility. It's hard (for many) to believe the US has consistently behaved with what appears on the surface to have been such immense incompetence without there being some sort of an underlying secretive agenda. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| caniff wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Pakistan's ISI is claiming the CIA agent was pawning off nuclear material to Al Qaeda . . . and ISI knows why: "to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse." |
It may be bullshit (and I'd wager it is), but I can also see how US activities over the years could lend such a report the whiff of credibility. It's hard (for many) to believe the US has consistently behaved with what appears on the surface to have been such immense incompetence without there being some sort of an underlying secretive agenda. |
The continuity between Bush and Obama has inspired many millions of us to look at alternate possibilities of why the world is as it is. Obama is nothing more than a spokesman for a set of interests. Bush was the previous spokesman. The interests are unchanged which is why Bush and Obama are so similar in outcome.
So, would the interests benefit from a nuclear terrorist attack? They sure as shit would. Bye bye (what's left of) civil liberties. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| caniff wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Pakistan's ISI is claiming the CIA agent was pawning off nuclear material to Al Qaeda . . . and ISI knows why: "to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse." |
It may be bullshit (and I'd wager it is), but I can also see how US activities over the years could lend such a report the whiff of credibility. It's hard (for many) to believe the US has consistently behaved with what appears on the surface to have been such immense incompetence without there being some sort of an underlying secretive agenda. |
Thanks for thinking like an analyst. And yes, we have gotten to that point of resentment against the US. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Pakistan's ISI is claiming the CIA agent was pawning off nuclear material to Al Qaeda . . . and ISI knows why: "to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse." |
It may be bullshit (and I'd wager it is), but I can also see how US activities over the years could lend such a report the whiff of credibility. It's hard (for many) to believe the US has consistently behaved with what appears on the surface to have been such immense incompetence without there being some sort of an underlying secretive agenda. |
Thanks for thinking like an analyst. |
Anytime. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I know, I am pretty much on the "dark side" now for some conspiracy stuff, but the problem I have with Caniff's interpretation is the "incompetence" aspect. It seems to me that some interests are in fact reaping a massive profit off of the events of the last decade. Oil, banking, and industries relating to the security seem to be making a killing, and the government seems powerless to regulate it.
In the debate on piracy, we were having a discussion on human rights, as it pertains to the pirates. Having just seen a video of the Blair shooting, It just seems an insane argument. When the police in America can walk into a house and kill a man stumbling out of bed with a golf club (and recieve official sanction) but cannot shoot pirates that they catch killing people in cold blood, then the narrative that we are all taught as children, about the enlightenment, the rule of reason, and all that stuff doesn't seem to have any bearing on what I see around me.
I am not just picking two random episodes. Can anyone explain what is happening in Afghanistan now? We are paying mercenaries to pay warlords not attack us, which they then do. We support a government whose main objective is to extort enough money from us to buy some sort of peace with the Taliban, which according to the narrative, we have to fight in order to survive.
On the domestic scene, we seem to be completely unable to deal adequately with banks. People on the left keep on talking about regulation, forgetting the fact the current regulations themselves are often not enforced. Or that the regulations themselves seem to be selectively enforced to gaurantee an outcome. It looks like a fixed game.
I don't want to get into the social multiculti stuff, except to say that the gov seems intent on promoting bad habits, esp in relation to divorce law, and welfare.
Is it insanity? Incompetence? A conspiracy? No idea. It just seems to me that my society is being run into the ground, and it is occuring at light speed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| Yeah, I know, I am pretty much on the "dark side" now for some conspiracy stuff, but the problem I have with Caniff's interpretation is the "incompetence" aspect. It seems to me that some interests are in fact reaping a massive profit off of the events of the last decade. Oil, banking, and industries relating to the security seem to be making a killing, and the government seems powerless to regulate it. |
I see that even we analysts can sometimes be misanalyzed.
(let me tell you, it's just as painful as it sounds.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| caniff wrote: |
| It's hard (for many) to believe the US has consistently behaved with what appears on the surface to have been such immense incompetence without there being some sort of an underlying secretive agenda. |
Yes, it is.
So who among you actually believe it? (We have our suspicions, but the opportunity is being given to these believers to do the honorable thing and come forth and admit it.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
From the Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/943387--in-pakistan-cia-s-activities-come-under-glare-after-murder-charge-against-american
| Quote: |
NEW DELHI�What was a C.I.A. agent doing in the streets of Lahore last month with a telescope and GPS device, a camera, and loaded Glock semi-automatic pistol?
On Jan. 27, 36-year-old Raymond Davis was arrested by police in Lahore after he shot and killed two local men who he says were trying to rob him as he drove through the city in a white Honda Civic.
...
In the weeks since his arrest, Davis�s incarceration has touched off a diplomatic showdown between Pakistan and the U.S., and has also stoked a debate over the powerful sway the U.S. government holds over several American media outlets who agreed to scuttle stories that would have disclosed earlier that Davis is a spy.
...
While some experts have predicted the U.S. might threaten to end or reduce its $3.5 billion worth of civilian and military aid to Pakistan, that�s unlikely to happen because western countries including the U.S. rely on trade routes from the Pakistani port city of Karachi to military bases in Afghanistan .
...
Video footage of two of his interrogation sessions is circulating on YouTube, as are photos Davis purportedly took with his cell phone camera before his arrest.
The first video clip was taken just after Davis was brought to a Lahore police station and shows him clearly shaken after a mob trailing police demanded that he be lynched.
Davis, who wore a checked shirt and had short graying hair and stubble, explains to investigators that he needs to �tell the embassy where I�m at.� He identifies himself as a consultant at the U.S. consulate in Lahore. He asks to sit down and for some bottled water.
�Ah, pure water, Nestle?� an officer says.
�No money, no panee (water),� the officer says with a laugh.
...
Since his arrest, Davis has slept on a foam mattress in a prison that�s home to 4,000 inmates, most of them militants. His guards have had their weapons taken away, lest they shoot him, and dogs are tasting and smelling his food to check for poison.
...
The widow of one of the men he killed committed suicide and her last words were to condemn Davis to death. That video footage was also front-page news and quickly made its way onto YouTube.
Davis�s link to the C.I.A. was first mentioned in the western press on Sunday by the London Guardian newspaper after several U.S. news organizations, including a Denver TV channel, the Associated Press and The New York Times, agreed to hold stories about Davis�s shadowy employer.
A columnist on Salon.com wrote Monday that the Times, America�s most influential broadsheet, should be �humiliated� for �allowing the U.S. Government to run around affirmatively depicting Davis as some sort of Holbrooke-like diplomat" while it concealed � highly relevant information about Davis because the Obama administration told it to.�
The Colorado TV channel 9News learned of Davis�s link after tracking down his wife. She referred a reporter to his employer, a C.I.A. spokesperson in Washington. 9News reported the development, but quickly deleted the story from its Website.
Over the past few days, the U.S. has insisted Davis was not involved in any spying or drone operations.
In a story published Tuesday, the English-language Express Tribune quoted a Punjabi police official who said Davis was actually working with the Pakistani Taliban in a bid to stoke insecurity in Pakistan and support the argument that its cache of nuclear weapons isn�t safe.
Call records of Davis�s cellphone allegedly establish his link to 27 Taliban militants and a sectarian group known as Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the police source said.
...
The journalist Khan said it�s impossible to predict what might happen with Davis because of a dispute between the federal government and Punjab state officials, where he is being held.
�The federal government would rather have him on his way but the state has made it clear that they want to know more clearly what he was doing on the ground and how many more Raymond Davises there may be out there,� she said. �It�s not just about him anymore. It�s become about America�s policies here and the drone attacks. He�s become a focal point for a lot of anger.� |
This story about says it all. The "free press" is a government wiener gobbling waste of trees and electricity, the CIA is probably feeding the enemy against the friend (Pakistan) and the local people want to see some American blood spilled.
America is trying to destabilize Pakistan. That is as stupid as it is scary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| America is trying to destabilize Pakistan. That is as stupid as it is scary. |
I disagree.
Its more likely that the US is targeting Pakistans militants (thier so called good guys, the US's bad guys).
Pakistan wants some militants to remain because thats how they control afghanistan. I mean, the Taliban are Pakistans creation (everyone knows that), it was to settle the country down.
Those 'enemies of our enemies are our friends' nonsense is just as bad as 'friends of our friends are our friends'. Pakistan has been a supporter of terrorism for so long they probably lost track of who is on thier side.
There are two possibilities going on;
1.) The US is targeting terrorists regardless of who supports them (if they arent then they should be) and they are hitting Pakistans friends.
2.) The US is seeking alternative spys (who happen to be Pakistans enemies and Pakistan wants to know who they are).
The end result is that Pakistani operatives got dropped.
Though based on being a member of a country, that since Vietnam has made it a policy to place a gap between the US troops and its own to prevent friendly fire.
I would say that the US sucks at being quiet in its operations. I mean seriously, havent they already bribed the guards in case he does get jailed. You do need them to release him a week after he gets convicted.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The new Indiana Jones! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
