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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Is it better to teach at a hagwon, a private school, or a public school? |
| Hagwon |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
| Public School |
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55% |
[ 10 ] |
| Private School |
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27% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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DragonLover
Joined: 19 May 2010
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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So... I know this is an age-old debate, but I think it's still an important one. I taught in Korea from 2007-2008 and had a great experience there overall. I taught at a hagwon, one that had its share of problems, but after reading some of the horror stories housed on this website I'd say I had it pretty good compared to some of you!
It was kindy... of which I'm not the biggest fan. What I disliked even more, though, were the classes I had to do where the mothers would come with their children. I can handle a lot, but I don't think I could handle doing that for another year. I also don't like the whole: "Hey, you have to come back in tonight and do some level testing" or "Hey, here's an extra set of classes that you have to teach every week... enjoy." I know that's probably the way of business, but I do appreciate knowing upfront what I'm going to be teaching and not having surprises thrown at me all the time.
I feel pretty conflicted about which route I should take this time if I do find myself back in Korea. After doing much research in the past couple of days, I've come to these conclusions:
1.) People have had good and bad experiences at PS, Hagwons, AND PrS. I recognize that it really just depends on the person experiencing it and the particular school they are placed at. I also realize that most of the people who post to forums like these are warning others of negative experiences they've had.
2.) In general, it seems that Public School offers more stability, more vacation time, and less pay. As to whether or not there is more planning/outside work involved, I'm not sure. The hagwon I worked at had a curriculum, but very few resources, so I feel like I spent a LOT of time outside of work hours planning/preparing. Not sure if this is the norm.
3.) I know very little about private schools. How are they different from hagwons? I always thought that's sort of what hagwons were.
So, keeping all of this in mind (and I know I'm getting long-winded here)... I'd love to hear a variety of experiences and opinions. I know that your opinion is YOUR opinion and won't be shared by everyone else, but I'm open to hearing anything. I WANT to be back in Korea, but I don't want to deal with a whole bunch of work-related drama while I'm there either. I'd love to hear about GOOD experiences and specific schools that are GOOD, not only negative, too - if anybody can help with that.
Anyway, sorry so long, hope I get some replies, and thank-you in advance!  |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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| lrlpalmer wrote: |
| 3.) I know very little about private schools. How are they different from hagwons? I always thought that's sort of what hagwons were. |
Private schools are essentially the same as public schools, they have to take students form the general public as the government mandates and does get most of it's funding from the government. Most private schools were started pre-80's when Korea wasn't so rich and encouraged private people/organizations to start schools to educate the masses. Most of the differences is behind the scene, things like how teachers are hired, administration and interaction between the PTA and staff. But in the end, the education authorities (the local board usually) has final say in every decision. Most likely you won't notice much difference between public and private schools except that teachers don't rotate to another school every few years. |
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Totti
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| lrlpalmer wrote: |
| 3.) I know very little about private schools. How are they different from hagwons? I always thought that's sort of what hagwons were. |
Private schools are essentially the same as public schools, they have to take students form the general public as the government mandates and does get most of it's funding from the government. Most private schools were started pre-80's when Korea wasn't so rich and encouraged private people/organizations to start schools to educate the masses. Most of the differences is behind the scene, things like how teachers are hired, administration and interaction between the PTA and staff. But in the end, the education authorities (the local board usually) has final say in every decision. Most likely you won't notice much difference between public and private schools except that teachers don't rotate to another school every few years. |
What would the deal be on desk warming/camps at private schools? I know it will be different for each school, but is it likely that they'll be more reasonable than your average public school? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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| Totti wrote: |
| What would the deal be on desk warming/camps at private schools? I know it will be different for each school, but is it likely that they'll be more reasonable than your average public school? |
Same as a public school, it depends on the school. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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| lrlpalmer wrote: |
2.) In general, it seems that Public School offers more stability, more vacation time, and less pay. As to whether or not there is more planning/outside work involved, I'm not sure. |
A MAJOR difference between PS and Hagwan is the bottom line (not just the monthly pay).
At MOST hagwans you only get the housing, pay, severance and airfare.
They typically do not include medical, pension, up to 6 weeks of paid vacation and airfare between/at renewals of contracts.
In a public school, if you add in the extras they are substantial:
-Pension is about 2.0 million per year (on average) when you cash out.
-21 working days of paid vacation and the new rules for adding workplaces make extra camps possible (although not technically permissible if you are a PS worker),
-14 additional days for "home leave" between contracts if you renew.
-Airfare equivalence between contracts (add another 1.3-2 million).
and
- If you have an after school program (still within your 9-5 day) you can bump your salary up by as much as an additional 500k won per month.
DON'T BASE YOUR DECISION ON THE INITIAL SALARY ALONE. Take ALL factors into account at any individual school.
It all depends on you, your work ethic, your school admin and your co-teacher but those factors happen in ALL teaching situations: public, private or hagwan.
. |
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Reise-ohne-Ende
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Hagwons are legally required to provide pension and medical. If they don't, then they're shady and you shouldn't be working for them. |
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DragonLover
Joined: 19 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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What about international schools? I don't know a whole lot about them either but I've heard they're the best option, albeit hard to get into.
Can anyone offer any specific recommendations for a GOOD school in Seoul? |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| lrlpalmer wrote: |
| 3.) I know very little about private schools. How are they different from hagwons? I always thought that's sort of what hagwons were. |
Private schools are essentially the same as public schools, they have to take students form the general public as the government mandates and does get most of it's funding from the government. Most private schools were started pre-80's when Korea wasn't so rich and encouraged private people/organizations to start schools to educate the masses. Most of the differences is behind the scene, things like how teachers are hired, administration and interaction between the PTA and staff. But in the end, the education authorities (the local board usually) has final say in every decision. Most likely you won't notice much difference between public and private schools except that teachers don't rotate to another school every few years. |
Yup, private schools are also generally more anal about everything. And to a certain extent, they're budget priority isn't as high as public schools. Though you do get an extra week or so off for desk warming because private schools need to advertise / recruit students for next year. Public schools don't have to do that.
The "14 additional days for "home leave" between contracts if you renew."
Doesn't mean much. Being able to use them depends entirely on your school. The district office gives some slack and lets you keep them for the whole year. But, in practice you can only use them during deskwarming days and these need to be approved by your school. I've noticed schools tend to treat these bonus vacation days with a more lassie-faire attitude than the 10 vacation days given in your contract. So there's no guarantee you can use em
| lrlpalmer wrote: |
What about international schools? I don't know a whole lot about them either but I've heard they're the best option, albeit hard to get into.
Can anyone offer any specific recommendations for a GOOD school in Seoul? |
The competition for a GOOD international school is brutal and you need very well rounded background with several years of teaching experience in the ps system in your home country.
The best international school in seoul that I can think of is: Seoul Foreign School (http://www.seoulforeign.org/)
This topic pops up every few months, run a search and you'll find some threads on how to get a job at one. Some people were lucky and got into one w/o experience but that's rare |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't vote in this poll, because there really isn't one type of school that's better than another type. Rather, certain individual schools of all types are better than other individual schools. In other words, there are good and bad hagwons and good and bad public schools. That's why I've decided not to apply to any general public school intakes (like SMOE), because I like to know and have a say in where I'm going to end up
It's up to you to research the individual school the offers you a position. You can do this by contacting current and former foreign teachers at the school; searching the school on Google, Dave's ESL, and similar sites; and posting your contract in the contract thread at the top of this forum.
How "good" or "bad" your job is will also depend on your personal preferences. Do you want to teach small or large classes? Little kids, older kids, or adults? Day or evening shift? Four weeks or two weeks of vacation? Extra overtime money or more time in the evenings? A "good" job for one person might suck for another person due to these factors.
Good luck! |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Public School vs. Hagwon vs. Private School |
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| winterfall wrote: |
| Though you do get an extra week or so off for desk warming because private schools need to advertise / recruit students for next year. Public schools don't have to do that. |
The recruiting is dependent on area. So if the local authorities don't place students in high schools then the HS will have to recruit. The recruiting happens in both private and public schools. |
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red_devil
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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You forgot the best gig -- University.  |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| lrlpalmer wrote: |
What about international schools? I don't know a whole lot about them either but I've heard they're the best option, albeit hard to get into.
Can anyone offer any specific recommendations for a GOOD school in Seoul? |
Unless you are certified as a teacher in your home country AND have a minimum of 2 years of verifiable classroom time after your certification it isn't going to happen.
IF you are in Korea AND you have some experience/connections THEN you'd have a better chance of landing a (last minute) university lecturer position (but they don't pay as well; on average less than 2 million but you only teach 12-15 classes per week).
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Often there's more money to be made working on the hagwon side of things. I've definitely made more money by going this route.
Public used to be the way to go. Now, meh. Hours and hours of deskwarming. But hagwons can be crappy too.
The whole industry isn't what it was, though you can still find some decent jobs. |
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DragonLover
Joined: 19 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I am certified teacher, 2 years of experience, plus I'm nearly finished my M.Ed (all coursework and internship/practicum complete, just finishing up my thesis research).
Would it still be difficult for me to land an international school job? I'm thinking probably, right?... I have never seen any advertised either.
I've heard so many people say that there are good hagwons, good public schools, good all-types-of-schools... but I've never heard anyone say what those schools are. I know they're out there, but where???
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:15 am Post subject: |
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It's really hard to generalize about schools because there are so many variables to consider.
I know people who were perfectly happy in the PS system, many who were not. It depends upon your relationship with your co-teacher and admin.
I have a friend who works in a private high-school in Busan which he loves.
He actually quit a uni job to get it.
He's not a certified teacher and he has an MA in business or something.
The reasons he loves it, the admin is not anal towards him, doesn't make him stay till 5:00, allows him to make and teach his own lessons without interference from a co-teacher, pays better and on and on.
When he heard of the stuff PS teachers had to put up with, he thanked his lucky stars and vowed never to ever work for a PS.
But this is only 1 guy in 1 school, anywhere else will be different. |
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