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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| rockymtn wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Its impossible for public schooling to close the socioeconomic achievement gap. Even Obama gets this and has spoken about it: education starts and is reinforced in the home. And the proclivity for educational achievement is not equally distributed among parents. |
I would disagree, I've been to a low ses school that out performing 90% of the schools in the state. Most the kids are hispanic & white. It's a dual language school & classes can be taught all in Spanish or English. Kids wear uniforms, parents are required to volunteer, the 2 principals know their stuff and they have 2 master teachers training and helping other teachers. Principals are good leaders, they make their direction and everyone follows. It's an amazing system that's tight with the community. These kids & teachers don't worry about state testing, b/c over 90% of them pass it every year. There a waiting list of families trying to get their kids in.
It can happen. |
This sounds like a charter school. Some charters are great. Many fail equally or worse than the public schools. Charter schools don't play by the same rules as public schools. So it's not fair comparing charters to public schools. Unless you are saying charter schools are the answer to the problems that public education faces. Which they're not, because it will take changing every struggling public school into charters, which will still fail. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Playing with different educational systems might patch things up a bit, and a truly special teacher who essentially does the parent's job for them and puts in effort totally incommensurate to the salary they receive can at times make a difference, but ultimately the average American parent needs to do a better job of instilling the proper values in their child. |
And don't forget that this teacher is only seeing them 180 days out of one year of their entire life. Or 45 minutes a day, 180 days a year if they are in middle school or high school. So the effect they will have on this student will be very short lived. Especially if they get a bad/mediocre teacher within the next three years. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_pizza wrote: |
Public education started out with the best intentions, of educating the youth but it has now mutated into keeping them occupied and out of trouble (for the time being). It's gone from welcoming to coercion and force. I think the schools and administrations still have good intentions. Rhee and the other principal (whose name escapes me) were right about the problem being the bureaucracy. Too many politicians, lobbyists, text book companies, and unions are fighting over a piece of this over HALF A TRILLION dollar pie.
Parental involment should remain at home. Welcoming it into the educational system is it's downfall. Parents are emotional beings and their
love prevents them from acknowledging certain truths about their child
which, in their pride, will find fault elsewhere. They must TRUST their teachers. I think most parents have the welfare and success of their children in mind. Sure you get the a nightmare parent every year (usually 1 or 2 out of a class of 27 in my experience). Most parents want your honest feedback. When I've made phone calls to parents, they know how much of a pain in the ass their son is. I've had parents flat out refuse that their son has behavior problems and were not open to any kind of testing. But, they are the parents and you have to respect that. The emotional aspect is usually focused on wanting the best for the kids. Not at blaming teachers and the system....usually.
Then thats when the next problem arises, how well do they trust the system and another person, a teacher, expected to give their child a fair, kind, good
and thorough education? They barely know the teacher at all in most
cases and so doubt and suspicions arises. Teachers now are trained to reach out to the parents first and actively communicate with them. |
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rockymtn
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: |
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[/quote] This sounds like a charter school. Some charters are great. Many fail equally or worse than the public schools. Charter schools don't play by the same rules as public schools. So it's not fair comparing charters to public schools. Unless you are saying charter schools are the answer to the problems that public education faces. Which they're not, because it will take changing every struggling public school into charters, which will still fail.[/quote]
Surprisingly not. It's a magnet school, run much like a public school but have a few different rule they can exercise that's not afforded public schools -- Students are accpeted in a lottery style. Teachers can still be apart of the union if they choose. They can't cherry pick their kids, like a private school or some charters. It's in a hispanic neighborhood & in an old building. It's not flashy, no new Mac's.
When you make something valuable to the parents (like getting into this magent school) the student fall in line. Expecially when parents have to put in their own elbow grease. Parents feel an ownership of the place & will definately make their child do what they are suppose to do. |
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rockymtn
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| ^ Is there an entrance exam? |
Nope. it's a lottery system. A predetermined percentage of minorites, special needs & white students are accepted. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Lottery systems don't work as a system solution. Many people still have to lose. It only works for a few lucky students. It's still not equitable and won't help to close the achievement gap. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Probably the education system is not going to fix the gap between whites and non Asian minorities. It is partly economic and partly culturally based. But I do n t know how government can act to change long term attitudes toward education. Spending more money does not really seem to help. Magnet schools and such are positive but until parental and community attitudes change they are a band aid on the problem.
I would like to see more black and Hispanic leaders step up and challenge their communities to do more about education. |
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pr1ncejeffie
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Lets take a look at the priorities between Asian and American parents. Yes, we all know that memorizing is not a great way to educate young students but with that said...
How much money did Korean parents put into these hagwons for their kids per year? Compare to that with American parents? I bet you they put more money into sports, beauty pageants, and so on. I know you want the world for your kid. I know your kid has an interest in baseball, basketball or any other activities that they might enjoy but when your kid is failing in school, shouldn't YOU SAY... I need to stop these extra activities and put my limited resources on my child's education?
Expectations, some parents would be happy if a child gets a 'C' or a 'D' on their math/science exam.
It's all about expectations.. what do you expect from your child? A "C" on his spelling test or an "A"? |
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rockymtn
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Lottery systems don't work as a system solution. Many people still have to lose. It only works for a few lucky students. It's still not equitable and won't help to close the achievement gap. |
The Lottery system is an admission tool, it's not suppose to be a system solution.
That's the tragedy. The US edu. system dismisses successful programs and leaving too many kids "unlucky".
I guess I don't understand why you think it's inequitable. I'd say the minority students there have definitely closed the achievement gap. I'd defiantly say this school is doing something right. Successful US schools are too rare. No, magnet school aren't the solution 100% of the time. They should be a part of the solution. The US needs to remodel education after successful schools in the US. The movie, like to highlight the failures of education but completely ignores the great schools in public schools. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| rockymtn wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Lottery systems don't work as a system solution. Many people still have to lose. It only works for a few lucky students. It's still not equitable and won't help to close the achievement gap. |
The Lottery system is an admission tool, it's not suppose to be a system solution.
That's the tragedy. The US edu. system dismisses successful programs and leaving too many kids "unlucky".
I guess I don't understand why you think it's inequitable. I'd say the minority students there have definitely closed the achievement gap. I'd defiantly say this school is doing something right. Successful US schools are too rare. No, magnet school aren't the solution 100% of the time. They should be a part of the solution. The US needs to remodel education after successful schools in the US. The movie, like to highlight the failures of education but completely ignores the great schools in public schools. |
The problem with a lottery system is that there are still way too many losers.
It's inequitable because Student A wins the lottery and gets to go to Charter School. Students B-Z get stuck in Public School that is stuck in a bureaucratic quagmire where nothing is getting better, the teachers suck, only 25% (if they're lucky) of students will graduate, etc...That is not an equitable education.
Don't get me wrong SOME charter schools are great (a lot are actually failing or don't get past their probation period). They are part of the solution.
Like I said, American families and students need to value education more. Teachers need to be more highly qualified and higher paid. The system needs to be redesigned to reflect the projected labor needs of 2020 and beyond. Schools should not follow a farming calendar and should be in session for more than 50% of the year. |
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