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fugitive chicken
Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Location: Bucheon
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 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| My husband and I are going to try for Oman in September. It seems like a pretty stable country compared to many. I won't be working because we have a little baby, but we're going for it! |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| cyui wrote: |
We had this discussion earlier. Nature Girl- Aren't you an American Citizen?
Think you can forget it unless you an some-how obtain a British Passport..
Are Irish passports' considered British? |
Yep, American and Peruvian. American first though  Only been Peruvian for two years now. And the Romanian passport is in the works That's part of the EU.
they hire Americans though. I think you're thinking of Libya and that's out for me. They usually hire single males.
I'm pretty limited to countries: just the UAE and Saudi I believe, since my husband would be my dependent.
Don't mind religious fanatics. I worked for Opus Dei for two years at one of their unis.
Couple probs I have
1. My MA is online.
2. My second MA is going to be online as well
3. My husband would be my dependent.
4. My husband's Peruvian. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
I did over 2 years in South Korea. I am now in my 2nd year in Saudi Arabia.
I teach at a university in Riyadh. The pay is very good and you can save far more than in Korea.
But if the western lifestyle i.e. partying, drinking alcohol is something you cannot live without, and you cannot accept living under a different set of laws to what you believe in, Saudi Arabia wouldn't be a good choice for you.
The standard of living here is high and inexpensive. I've seen no hint of strife coming to Saudi. Each Middle Eastern country is not exactly the same.
Generally, my students tend to show greater interest in native teachers (especially caucasians).
As with Korea, there is also xenophobia here. Overall, life is quite good.
If you have a Masters you'll get better pay. I'm thinking about doing one, face to face for 1 year. I don't know if they accept online degrees, but if you have a Masters they'll accept, you can apply direct to universities and get better benefits.
I work for a company that employs teachers for the university.
It's also relevant to mention you'd need to do some research on whichever country you choose. To go somewhere, clueless about its culture could lead to problems. So, make sure you know the dos and don'ts of the country. Also, don't show open disrespect, attempt to impose your ideas or walk around like you own the place. 
I was watching msnbc yesterday and they had a discussion about the Middle East. Pat Buchanan asked an invited expert questions, but demonstrated a decent knowledge of history.
He said Muslims basically ruled the world for 1000 years and had one of the world's best civilizations. He then went on to say they began to stagnate around the 17th century, he asked the expert to discuss why that was. So, you should know some history of where you'll go, to at least appreciate what these people have done, well before America/western civilization for example, was even conceived of.
Comments on this thread for example, which allude to having a second wife being contrary to womens rights, is an example of the western mindset. But if you say such things in the Middle East, that would be disrespectful and insulting. In summary, try to be diplomatic and tactful, as opposed to being a loud, stupid, fool. In Islam, it is allowed for a man to have up to 4 wives. If you said negative things about that, it would be an insult, and not seen as a bit of a laugh.
Pay Buchanan mentioned how women only got the vote in the 20th century in many western countries, which Islam gave to women over 1400 years ago.
As a married person, you'd also be close to an ideal candidate for the Middle East. They prefer that.
Lastly, be aware the students in Saudi don't want to learn. If you can stomach being a glorified babysitter, then you'll do well here. If you even try to discipline them, you'll be the one to blame. Also don't discuss politics or religion, just stick with English.
In class, you need to have no self-respect at all. The development of this skill is ongoing. |
This mirrors what I heard from people I know who are working or who worked in the ME.
Great post by the way. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
Further, the king's second wife (I think he has two wives... maybe more) has been very instrumental in promoting women's rights and education. |
It seems the irony in Qatar is also very rich. |
Why should that be considered ironic? If anything, being rich is a partial prerequisite to being able to have more than one wife. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
| Comments on this thread for example, which allude to having a second wife being contrary to womens rights, is an example of the western mindset. But if you say such things in the Middle East, that would be disrespectful and insulting. In summary, try to be diplomatic and tactful, as opposed to being a loud, stupid, fool. In Islam, it is allowed for a man to have up to 4 wives. If you said negative things about that, it would be an insult, and not seen as a bit of a laugh. |
I am not sure if you are referring to me or Redaxe or both of us, but I certainly meant nothing disrespectful by my comment. I do however admit as someone who grew up with Western values, I do find it instinctively ironic that someone who is a second wife, would also simulteneously be deeply involved in promoting women's rights. But once again, I do not mean anything disrespectful by that. Consider it a playful rib. Further, with that said, at same time, on a purely intellectual level, I also recognize that it is not a contradiction at all and have no problem with it at all... And finally, let me be the first to admit as a guy that the idea of having two wives, does have a sort of nice appeal to it.
In fact, while I am no fan of the mormon religion, I do think the USA made a mistake when Utah was forced to ban polygamy before being admitted as a state. Further, without making any particular stance with regards to religion, I would go so far as to say that a man should have the right to have more than one wife and a woman should also have the right to have than one husband (such as in the old Clint Eastwood Western movie "Paint Your Wagon"). |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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I mentioned in my post the comment about the second wife was typical of the western mindset. I understand you meant it to be humorous, but in order to understand the 'other,' one has to be aware of what they'd consider to be humorous or offensive.
Maybe, she is the second wife because her husband happened to meet her after he had married his first wife. Being the second wife, doesn't mean she is second best, it just means she is the second wife. If a Muslim marries more than one woman, he is meant to treat them equally, so I can't see why the second wife couldn't be an active campaigner for womens rights.
Another important point is the definition of womens rights will almost certainly differ from that of the western view. So, you'll find what some westerners feel are progessive measures may be seen as regressive by Muslims, and vice versa.
It all comes down to having an awareness of differing viewpoints. I don't mean to generalize, but I feel confident some of the western teachers in Saudi have no clue about the country, and they cannot blame anybody else for that but themselves.
If a person moves to a different country and doesn't even know what would be considered offensive there, it's the failing of that person in my view to have not researched the place properly beforehand.
I suppose this issue is indirectly related to the debate over free speech.
Looking back, before I went to Korea I didn't read much about the place. I didn't really mix with many Koreans. If I knew something would offend them and it didn't involve me compromising my own beliefs, then I'd happily avoid doing such a thing.
If Koreans wanted me to do something which went against my beliefs but was important to them, I'd respectfully decline and explain why.
I think genuine civility is almost dead nowadays.
In short, it's important to be tactful.
Thanks for the comment Patrick and thank you for the explanation Konglishman. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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fromtheuk,
We need more posts like yours on these types of issues. You presented a well balanced and informative post that would be useful to anyone wishing to work anywhere in the ME.
The basic advice you offer as well as the attitude you propose expats take are valid in a wider scope and can be applied with relevance to expats wishing to do well in any foreign country, including Korea.
Great work. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
| Looking back, before I went to Korea I didn't read much about the place. |
A really good post fromtheuk!! I wasn't being facetious before when I said that you'd improved hand over fist, even if my intentions weren't too pure.
Re the quote above: I think it was quite alright for you to have not read anything about Korea before embarking. One reason is that a lot of splurb has no meaning until one actually does it. Secondly, most folks bound for Korea are the young set and we know how we were at that age.
When I first went to Taiwan I knew nothing in advance. It just didn't occur to me to have to research and now I'm being held as irresponsible and stupid. Meanwhile it's completely normal and arguably best.
Everything was fine in Taiwan, they're honest to a fault and accepting of foreigners. So naturally I was in for a rude awakening when I hit Korea.
Nowadays I would um do at least a cursory check, before setting foot on anywhere new, representing been there, done that, lesson learned. |
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cyui
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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That's great Nature Girl..and why would you wanna teach in Libya anyways?!
S |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
To be exact, $2870 a month. I have 30 days paid vacation in my contract. If I had a Masters, I'd get 2 months paid vacation as a direct hire. Even if I stayed with my company, I'd get more money with a Masters.
I'm thinking about doing a Masters. It's a bit expensive, but worth it in the long run. I've also heard an MA in TESOL is pretty easy, many non-native speakers also manage to pass the course. |
With a Masters Degree you would make about 5k/ month at a university. If you get them to provide you with housing than add another 1K to that. As far drinking you can take a train to Al Khobar and then a taxi to bahrain or just fly there direct. Bahrain has night clubs, drinking, prostitution and just about anything you want. Of course in your own apartment or a compound you can drink to your heart's content. |
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smee18
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: |
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[/quote]
Yep, American and Peruvian. American first though Only been Peruvian for two years now. And the Romanian passport is in the works That's part of the EU.
they hire Americans though. I think you're thinking of Libya and that's out for me. They usually hire single males.
I'm pretty limited to countries: just the UAE and Saudi I believe, since my husband would be my dependent.
Don't mind religious fanatics. I worked for Opus Dei for two years at one of their unis.
Couple probs I have
1. My MA is online.
2. My second MA is going to be online as well
3. My husband would be my dependent.
4. My husband's Peruvian.[/quote]
Did you do your online Masters through a reputable institution? I too have an online Masters, which I did through a Uni back home (Australia). Its the same Masters qualification I would receive if I studied 'in person.' Nothing on the certificate differentiates it. Conceivably, I could just lie and say I did it in person, or partially in person. No way that they could know the difference. |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| wow 2750 is not much money to live in a stinking hot place, with few women to chase, little partying and spoiled kids. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| D.D. wrote: |
| wow 2750 is not much money to live in a stinking hot place, with few women to chase, little partying and spoiled kids. |
thats kind of what I was thinking. If it goes up to 4k/month, then sure it would be. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Radius wrote: |
| D.D. wrote: |
| wow 2750 is not much money to live in a stinking hot place, with few women to chase, little partying and spoiled kids. |
thats kind of what I was thinking. If it goes up to 4k/month, then sure it would be. |
An experienced high school teacher clears 4k/month after taxes. Even with the benefits of easy savings, it's not worth 4K. 5K no tax plus cheap accomodation plus international school package for children, and maybe it might be.
Although, now that I say that, I think it really depends on if your spouse can work as well. If you're both comfortable in the M.E. and can clear 7-8K/month after living expenses, you would be doing well. |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| not hard to make 2750 times 6.7 which equals 18425 rmb in china, with plenty of women , parties decent weather, cheap food, ect. |
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