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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Skyblue wrote: |
I still stand by my principled decision to stay firmly on the right side of the law while living as a humble and grateful guest in this country. |
Skyblue you must be getting the jitters with all these caveats. No ways anyone will catch you!! Just relax and coin it as you've been doing for so long. Why choke now?
I've never had direct or indirect experience of anyone been caught. Only hearsay of foreigners reporting one another in Seoul to steal the other's business. Just big talk I think.
And of course the scare mongers on daves that use pure guesswork on which to base their facts.
Last edited by shifty on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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I have known and still know people who have been in and out on tourist visas for the last 10 years teaching private English lessons. Do you really think immigration doesn't know what they're up to? Much like economic migrants the world over they're quietly tolerated until a political scapegoat is needed.
I don't know anyone who has been deported but I have known people who have been given a small fine and exit orders for teaching summer camps without a proper visa. The people I know flew to Japan and then turned around in the airport and came back into Korea.
For the record, I don't condone doing what those guys have done. If after working and living 10 years in Korea you're still not a legal resident, you're severely failing. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
I've never had direct or indirect experience of anyone been caught.
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I have! In the same city, two different teachers, two different companies/governing bodies.
In the first case, my best friend worked for a company that had a portion of the public school contract for a small city. He had so many privates that he could not handle them all, so he set a lot of his friends up as well(popular guy). Some one contacted his school(where he was extremely well-liked) who in turn told the company(to cover their own butts, it turns out). Anyway, he was called into the company office where he was grilled by two female admins who tried to do the good cop/bad cop thing on him to get him to 'fess up, which he never did. He just denied, denied, denied, so they let it drop with a stern warning. He was pretty sure which apartment building the tipster lived in, so he just arranged to do that lesson somewhere else. Never missed a beat.(at the time however, he was pretty worried).
In the second case, in the same city, EPIK, which had most of the public schools, caught one of my friends, but pretty much kept it "in house", and let him off with a stern warning. They also did something on a regular basis that I thought was pretty clever. They would send out emails to all their teachers saying they knew certain individuals were doing privates and had better stop immediately or face termination. Since they did not name names, anyone doing privates would get the jitters as they were not sure if they were the one being talked about-so they usually quit doing them.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Typically someone informs the authorities that they think a foreign teacher is teaching private lessons in their area/building.
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This is true. What is the tipster's motivation? Mostly jealousy, from what my Korean friend tells me. The mom's are so competitive that when they see someone getting something they perhaps can not afford to do for their kids, they fink. On top of that, unless I am mistaken, two years ago the government started offering rewards to tipsters. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Just be sure that when you decide to teach private lessons, you know the risks and consequences. |
In my friend's case, he knew before he even came to Korea, in order for it to make fiscal sense, he would have to get some "extra" work. This was because he was slightly older than the average teacher, and sent back about 95% of his combined income(legit and privates) home to support his family.
Obligatory disclaimer:not condoning or recommending, just relaying his reasoning. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think many Westerners would get deported as long as they don't overstay their visas or get caught breaking criminal laws, because it wouldn't make any economic sense whatsoever. As long as they can keep tabs on where the ESL teachers are (the "visa run"), I really would be surprised if they were given more than token fines and exit orders. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| I don't think many Westerners would get deported as long as they don't overstay their visas or get caught breaking criminal laws, because it wouldn't make any economic sense whatsoever. As long as they can keep tabs on where the ESL teachers are (the "visa run"), I really would be surprised if they were given more than token fines and exit orders. |
Reasonable indeed.
The cases I knew of while in Korea (people I knew who got busted for example, or people at nearby schools) and that I know of now (through friends and contacts) are usually about a fine and an exit order. The more serious cases include a heavy fine, detention if you cannot pay it or pay for your airfare out and eventual deportation with a re-entry ban.
Most would fall in the middle somewhere. |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry for the probably obvious question, but an exit order means you can simple do a visa run and come back into the country? |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Riker wrote: |
| Sorry for the probably obvious question, but an exit order means you can simple do a visa run and come back into the country? |
The answer is..maybe. The people I've known to get exit orders left and re-entered, no questions asked, a couple of people on the exact same day. That was several years ago, and I don't know what they tracked then nor now, but nothing was marked in their passport. That doesn't mean this will always be the case or even that someone caught violating immigration law would not be outright arrested, incarcerated, and deported. A lot of it boils down to the current political and economic mood.
It may seem simple that you break immigration law you are deported or denied entry but reality is a lot muckier than that. For example, Korea has reciprocal visa agreements with other countries. Denying too many people entry into Korea or deporting them would put that recipriocal agreement in jeopardy, and who is benefiting more from that agreement? Also you have to think all the hagwons and universities and high-ranking citizens who want part-time or private tutors but don't have the necessity or means to sponsor a full-time tutor, what do they do? So is mass crackdown of undocumented ESL teachers solving any problems or just creating more? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| Riker wrote: |
| Sorry for the probably obvious question, but an exit order means you can simple do a visa run and come back into the country? |
The answer is..maybe. The people I've known to get exit orders left and re-entered, no questions asked, a couple of people on the exact same day. That was several years ago, and I don't know what they tracked then nor now, but nothing was marked in their passport. That doesn't mean this will always be the case or even that someone caught violating immigration law would not be outright arrested, incarcerated, and deported. A lot of it boils down to the current political and economic mood.
It may seem simple that you break immigration law you are deported or denied entry but reality is a lot muckier than that. For example, Korea has reciprocal visa agreements with other countries. Denying too many people entry into Korea or deporting them would put that recipriocal agreement in jeopardy, and who is benefiting more from that agreement? Also you have to think all the hagwons and universities and high-ranking citizens who want part-time or private tutors but don't have the necessity or means to sponsor a full-time tutor, what do they do? So is mass crackdown of undocumented ESL teachers solving any problems or just creating more? |
That is an innacurate assumption silk. Deporting people for breaking the law in Korea has NO impact on reciprocal visa aggreements with other countries. In such a case, Korea is simply enforcing its own laws.
Denying visas for no good reason prior to entry would have such an impact however.
The issue of illegal private lessons could be easily solved: make it legal, regulate it and include legal requirements for teachers who wish to tutor.
Those likely requirements would be: get permission from immigration and your employer.
why your employer?
Because like any foreign worker visa, your employer is the reason you have a visa as he or she is sponsoring you.
Once the lessons are approved and you register, you are taxed on the income earned. This would have the added bonus of regulating wages for private lessons and to provide parents and adult learners with a reference on the worth of such lessons.
There is a demand for private tutors to be sure. However, there is a long standing issue with the Korean government of trying to level the educational playing field for its citizens and of regulating what foreign labor does on its land. Both of those concerns are quite reasonable. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
That is an innacurate assumption silk. Deporting people for breaking the law in Korea has NO impact on reciprocal visa aggreements with other
countries. In such a case, Korea is simply enforcing its own laws.
Denying visas for no good reason prior to entry would have such an impact however.
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Sure it does, politics are always involved. I'm not saying immigration can't deport people from Korea, and breaking *criminal* law will almost certainly get you deported. However they will tiptoe a little more carefully when dealing with citizens from countries they have recipriocal agreements with, like not harassing them at the airport when they do their 6-month visa run.. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
That is an innacurate assumption silk. Deporting people for breaking the law in Korea has NO impact on reciprocal visa aggreements with other
countries. In such a case, Korea is simply enforcing its own laws.
Denying visas for no good reason prior to entry would have such an impact however.
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Sure it does, politics are always involved. I'm not saying immigration can't deport people from Korea, and breaking *criminal* law will almost certainly get you deported. However they will tiptoe a little more carefully when dealing with citizens from countries they have recipriocal agreements with, like not harassing them at the airport when they do their 6-month visa run.. |
Now that is a different story. That 6 month visa run you talk about is not the same as deporting a teacher busted for doing private lessons.
The issue with 6 month visa runs is mostly one of lack of organisation and manpower for K immi. |
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