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Tom Scott
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: Term limits on university contracts. Why? |
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| Does anybody have information on why some Korean universities have term limits on contracts for foreign instructors? Do the same rules apply for Koreans or is it discriminatory? |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Term limits on university contracts. Why? |
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| Tom Scott wrote: |
| Does anybody have information on why some Korean universities have term limits on contracts for foreign instructors? Do the same rules apply for Koreans or is it discriminatory? |
I wouldn't expect job security at the university level without a tenure track and the requirements that usually go with it like Ph.D and bilingual fluency |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I believe it's to placate the professors union that requires after a certain period working you should be offered tenure.
You may have a case as the LSA requires that after 2 years as a contract employee you must be given regular employee status, so if you work there 2 years they can't let you go easily, they must give you 1 months notice with cause. I don't know if this applies to universities though. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
I believe it's to placate the professors union that requires after a certain period working you should be offered tenure.
You may have a case as the LSA requires that after 2 years as a contract employee you must be given regular employee status, so if you work there 2 years they can't let you go easily, they must give you 1 months notice with cause . I don't know if this applies to universities though. |
1 month notice with cause does not even come close to tenure back in the states. Non-tenured teachers will not get let go unless they did something terribly wrong like throw a book at a kid (then you will be fired on the spot). Tenured teacher takes months of continued visits observations and documentation before a case can even made to let go of a tenure teacher.
There is no tenure in Korea for foreigners, but there are plenty of Koreans who have gone to America and received tenure. And yes it definitely discriminatory. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| There is no tenure in Korea for foreigners, but there are plenty of Koreans who have gone to America and received tenure. And yes it definitely discriminatory. |
The Koreans who have tenure in the U.S probably speak English very well. Most EFL instructors at Korean universities do not speak Korean well enough to fully function in an academic environment. I don't think the situations are comparable - unless you are talking about Korean teachers who teach compulsory freshman Korean to American students. There is tenure for foreigners here, but they speak Korean and work in departments other than EFL. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
I believe it's to placate the professors union that requires after a certain period working you should be offered tenure.
You may have a case as the LSA requires that after 2 years as a contract employee you must be given regular employee status, so if you work there 2 years they can't let you go easily, they must give you 1 months notice with cause . I don't know if this applies to universities though. |
1 month notice with cause does not even come close to tenure back in the states. Non-tenured teachers will not get let go unless they did something terribly wrong like throw a book at a kid (then you will be fired on the spot). Tenured teacher takes months of continued visits observations and documentation before a case can even made to let go of a tenure teacher.
There is no tenure in Korea for foreigners, but there are plenty of Koreans who have gone to America and received tenure. And yes it definitely discriminatory. |
False, there is tenure in Korea for foreigners but its limited JUST like tenure is limited back home for foreign professors. How odd is that?
As stated above olsanairbase and as stated TWICE before in other threads where you peddled this false argument: Korean professors who teach abroad and who get tenure track positions are near fluent or at least at the advanced level in English.
These are not the average MA holder who speaks but a smacking of Korean..
There are several posters here who are on tenure track positions in Korea..magically they hold Phds, do research, publish and typically have significant Korean language abilities.
How does that happen I wonder? 
As for the OP: foreigners with the proper qualifications can become tenure track professors and have no term limits.
Instructors (what the majority of foreigners are at universities) SOMETIMES have term limits. This is not discrimination.
People need to differenciate between instructors and professors. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:49 am Post subject: |
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OP I will give you the short answer.
Money. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
I believe it's to placate the professors union that requires after a certain period working you should be offered tenure.
You may have a case as the LSA requires that after 2 years as a contract employee you must be given regular employee status, so if you work there 2 years they can't let you go easily, they must give you 1 months notice with cause . I don't know if this applies to universities though. |
1 month notice with cause does not even come close to tenure back in the states. Non-tenured teachers will not get let go unless they did something terribly wrong like throw a book at a kid (then you will be fired on the spot). Tenured teacher takes months of continued visits observations and documentation before a case can even made to let go of a tenure teacher.
There is no tenure in Korea for foreigners, but there are plenty of Koreans who have gone to America and received tenure. And yes it definitely discriminatory. |
False, there is tenure in Korea for foreigners but its limited JUST like tenure is limited back home for foreign professors. How odd is that?
As stated above olsanairbase and as stated TWICE before in other threads where you peddled this false argument: Korean professors who teach abroad and who get tenure track positions are near fluent or at least at the advanced level in English.
These are not the average MA holder who speaks but a smacking of Korean..
There are several posters here who are on tenure track positions in Korea..magically they hold Phds, do research, publish and typically have significant Korean language abilities.
How does that happen I wonder?
As for the OP: foreigners with the proper qualifications can become tenure track professors and have no term limits.
Instructors (what the majority of foreigners are at universities) SOMETIMES have term limits. This is not discrimination.
People need to differenciate between instructors and professors. |
Korean professors who teach abroad and who get tenure track positions are near fluent or at least at the advanced level in English.
That's false. Most Koreans, and Asian students in general, who get tenure are doing so in the areas of engineering. And most are at large universities where focus isn't on teach as much as it is doing research and winning grant money. You need fluent English to do either of those in engineering since Mathematics is a universal language.
speaks but a smacking of Korean..
First, I have no clue what you mean by "smacking". The meaning refers to hitting people not speaking a language. Regardless, the ability to speak Korean is not and never was a pre-requisite. Far more important is your experience in your particular field. If language was the only way schools recruited then many schools would fail to recruit the best students. English is a much more universal language.
There are several posters here who are on tenure track positions in Korea..magically they hold Phds, do research, publish and typically have significant Korean language abilities.
And you know this how because you have met in real life and have confirmed their tenure status. Again, the fact that you are citing language ability as a pre-requisite for tenure is quite comical. |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
I believe it's to placate the professors union that requires after a certain period working you should be offered tenure.
You may have a case as the LSA requires that after 2 years as a contract employee you must be given regular employee status, so if you work there 2 years they can't let you go easily, they must give you 1 months notice with cause . I don't know if this applies to universities though. |
1 month notice with cause does not even come close to tenure back in the states. Non-tenured teachers will not get let go unless they did something terribly wrong like throw a book at a kid (then you will be fired on the spot). Tenured teacher takes months of continued visits observations and documentation before a case can even made to let go of a tenure teacher.
There is no tenure in Korea for foreigners, but there are plenty of Koreans who have gone to America and received tenure. And yes it definitely discriminatory. |
False, there is tenure in Korea for foreigners but its limited JUST like tenure is limited back home for foreign professors. How odd is that?
As stated above olsanairbase and as stated TWICE before in other threads where you peddled this false argument: Korean professors who teach abroad and who get tenure track positions are near fluent or at least at the advanced level in English.
These are not the average MA holder who speaks but a smacking of Korean..
There are several posters here who are on tenure track positions in Korea..magically they hold Phds, do research, publish and typically have significant Korean language abilities.
How does that happen I wonder?
As for the OP: foreigners with the proper qualifications can become tenure track professors and have no term limits.
Instructors (what the majority of foreigners are at universities) SOMETIMES have term limits. This is not discrimination.
People need to differenciate between instructors and professors. |
Korean professors who teach abroad and who get tenure track positions are near fluent or at least at the advanced level in English.
That's false. Most Koreans, and Asian students in general, who get tenure are doing so in the areas of engineering. And most are at large universities where focus isn't on teach as much as it is doing research and winning grant money. You need fluent English to do either of those in engineering since Mathematics is a universal language.
speaks but a smacking of Korean..
First, I have no clue what you mean by "smacking". The meaning refers to hitting people not speaking a language. Regardless, the ability to speak Korean is not and never was a pre-requisite. Far more important is your experience in your particular field. If language was the only way schools recruited then many schools would fail to recruit the best students. English is a much more universal language.
There are several posters here who are on tenure track positions in Korea..magically they hold Phds, do research, publish and typically have significant Korean language abilities.
And you know this how because you have met in real life and have confirmed their tenure status. Again, the fact that you are citing language ability as a pre-requisite for tenure is quite comical. |
Someone with a Ph.D. in Engineering needs to speak English at a high level... Reading and writing article is not easy without at least a decent command of English. |
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RobertGR
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
Someone with a Ph.D. in Engineering needs to speak English at a high level... Reading and writing article is not easy without at least a decent command of English. |
Decent command maybe but I've known a number of foreign born faculty in the US who were hardly fluent in English. Most work with a copy editor.
I also know tenure track western faculty in Korea who speak little Korean. It is may be easier for them since they teach in English though they are handicapped by being a small minority of the faculty. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:27 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the necessity to differentiate between instructors, professors and lecturers. The term professor is bandied around too much in Korea and North America. I also believe someone with a Masters should top out at associate lecturer but to the point:
Are universities exempt from the law that requires companies make contract workers into regular workers after 2 years?
I am aware of the difference between regular workers and tenured workers but one month with cause on an ongoing basis is a fairly secure position I would argue. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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The Grumpy Senator
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
There is no tenure in Korea for foreigners, but there are plenty of Koreans who have gone to America and received tenure. And yes it definitely discriminatory. |
I guess I could address this with....
| olsanairbase wrote: |
And you know this how because you have met in real life and have confirmed their tenure status. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:31 am Post subject: |
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I always love all the bickering on Dave's. It is the Entertainment.
Anyway, there are probably a number of reasons for it but basically most FTs are hired as "Visiting or Guest Professors (Instructors)." The key word here is "Visiting" or "Guest." By definition, it is supposed to be temporary just as it is in our home countries.
Now, some colleges and universities define the limits of a Visiting Professor in the contract and some don't.
That said there are probably some economic reasons why this type of rule is enforced.
It also should be said that there are a number of FTs who have managed to find niches in Korean university some of whom have high academic achievement and some who don't; some of which have strong command of the Korean language and some of whom don't. Korean universities make hiring decisions based on their own criteria and few on Dave's have any real insight and those few who do only understand their own little slice of that experience which cannot be accurately used to comprehend the myriad of schools and their respective policies which are certainly not uniform across the country.
But, bottom line, it is because you are a "Guest Professor," with all the rights and restrictions that implies. |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
I always love all the bickering on Dave's. It is the Entertainment.
Anyway, there are probably a number of reasons for it but basically most FTs are hired as "Visiting or Guest Professors (Instructors)." The key word here is "Visiting" or "Guest." By definition, it is supposed to be temporary just as it is in our home countries.
Now, some colleges and universities define the limits of a Visiting Professor in the contract and some don't.
That said there are probably some economic reasons why this type of rule is enforced.
It also should be said that there are a number of FTs who have managed to find niches in Korean university some of whom have high academic achievement and some who don't; some of which have strong command of the Korean language and some of whom don't. Korean universities make hiring decisions based on their own criteria and few on Dave's have any real insight and those few who do only understand their own little slice of that experience which cannot be accurately used to comprehend the myriad of schools and their respective policies which are certainly not uniform across the country.
But, bottom line, it is because you are a "Guest Professor," with all the rights and restrictions that implies. |
Unposter is right. Unless you are a true "professor" given the same responsibilies of a Korean professor (which not only means publishing but also head of a department which is somtimes rotational) though some schools may give you that "교수" title or even in English, "professor" or "assistant-professor", it is title out of professional courtesy and it carries no real weight or job security.
Several gentlemen whom I've known and well qualified for their positions got the three year axe to their surprise and..."unhappiness".
It's definitely something to consider and ask about during interviews, possibly even ask for an addendum to a contract about the overall length of employment as long as one fulfills their contractual obligations.
Personally, I'm simply lucky and very proud of my university in it's devotion to retain it's foreign faculty members. |
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