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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
| there is another guy.. we call him "Third". He's not a dept head, but we know he's third in rank after p and vp, |
Not an exact fit but close.
| Junior wrote: |
| Cmon...you can't be that unaware as to the politics of your workplace. |
The office politics here are a bit complicated. Its a private school so the teachers don't rotate. Instead every year they reshuffle themselves and take on new roles like the guy who did scheduling last year will met out discipline this term. Depending on which role you get, which seems to be decided by the powers to be and the lottery affects your influence in the school. And the teacher's attitudes usually change to accommodate this.
But I never bother with that crap, like Vagabundo said. The only ones that matter are your dept head, vp, and p. In my case its: dept head, vp, p, head administrative office manager, and owner. The head administrative office manager is the owner's lackey, hes got more power than the principal but he doesn't get involved unless something serious happens. I'm on good terms with him though 
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
Do you know Korean?
I'd use the little Korean known (or try not to show too much) and make small talk. Say hello in the mornings, goodbye in the afternoon, and that's it.
Or he wants to drink with you
Or he has a management problem (like 80% of K-managers have) |
Even speaking a small amount of korean is blown out of proportion because I'm a gyopo, no where near fluent but give them any hint and they're assume that you are. I speak more korean than the average foreigner but if they've studied for at least 6 months. They're light years ahead of me. Anyway better for me to just stay quiet.
Drank with him once, worst mistake ever. After the 2nd or 3rd drink he turns into a broken record and repeats the same english sentence over and over and over for an hour. "Excuse I english.... i knowing not". After the 5th drink, he starts slurring so you hear "Ex~~~~gurgle gurgle~~~ no WIN ~~~~ gurgle gurgle ~~~ burp". After the 7th drink, he passed out on the table. We were drinking nuclear shots (Soju + matgari + cider all mixed into one glass) and beer as chaser. I don't blame him, drinking all of that at once is pure poison. I was still on my first cup but you know koreans they just keep on chugging until something happens
And his english is actually better than most of the teachers.
Yup, guess I'll just wait for my dept head to come back. |
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Caffeinated
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'll echo NYCGal's tips about smiles and snacks. My Korean has, um, stalled, but I try to make up for that by attending the lunches and dinners when I can, along with snacks for the staff I deal with.
While I'm easygoing with the smiles and greetings with students, I'm less "social" at my current school compared to my previous ones - small banter with the students and playing with them at lunchtime. So the accusation tossed at the OP is something that I think I'd be susceptible to especially in regards to my sociability at past schools. I'm thinking about starting up an English newspaper or maybe even a regular T broadcast to reach out to students I don't teach to further avoid this. |
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WadRUG'naDoo
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Tell him that may be so, but that he is too rude and blunt and that he should learn more about how people's personalities differ. Then you can tell him that you both learned something today.
An hour? I would've found an excuse to walk away after 5 minutes. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Maybe it's one of those dealies where the manager was told to think of an 'area of improvement' and that's what he came up with.
I don't know if this happens in Korea, but sometimes it's not even really about you and the school/someone higher up has made it a rule that everyone gets one piece of 'constructive criticism' based on the principle that no one is a model employee and everyone has something they need to work on.
But then again, I'm not sure if a lot of Koreans realize just how out of place a lot of us feel at these social outings, and how much pressure there is on us to 'perform', or not make mistakes-- I know I have a really hard time when I realize just how closely everyone is watching and waiting to see what I will do, and there never really comes a time when I'm finally accepted as 'a part of the team'... basically, for most of/all of us, we're 'the foreigner' and that's what we'll always be to them... even if it means that we're treated extra nice/made a big deal of/tiptoed around, it's still hard to be different... and that will always have an impact on how 'social' we are around our colleagues-- and it's pretty much unavoidable. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Who knows really? There could be any number of reasons why the guy is doing this. He may have orders from higher up or he may have just taken it on himself to try and Koreanize you. Who knows? |
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jurassic82
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Location: Somewhere!!!!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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I don't really see what the big deal is. I do understand that going to these social functions can be torture but is it really that bad? I myself get bored at them and especially hate when they insist that I go out with them and then nobody talks to me. Many of the teachers at my school can speak English but are too shy to make mistakes so often they stay quiet. I do however make an effort to talk and it has made a world of difference. At the end of the semester it can be really bad with as many as three work dinners.
In the grand scheme of things I don't think it is all that bad. I never had that sort of thing when I was back in America. So they want you to be more social. I assume that means so they can no you better and god forbid have a better relationship. I agree that these social outings can be tortorous at times but many times I did have a good time as long as I made an effort not to piss and moan about it. I have been back in America for two weeks now visiting and can't wait to get back to Korea. Anyways, your "manager" or whatever he is does sound like a tool and I have a pretty good idea of the type of guy he is. Anyways, hope all gets better. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jurassic82 wrote: |
I don't really see what the big deal is. I do understand that going to these social functions can be torture but is it really that bad? I myself get bored at them and especially hate when they insist that I go out with them and then nobody talks to me. Many of the teachers at my school can speak English but are too shy to make mistakes so often they stay quiet. I do however make an effort to talk and it has made a world of difference. At the end of the semester it can be really bad with as many as three work dinners.
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This is a tech school, imagine the worst class you've ever had. Multiply it by 20 and imagine teaching 4 of them every day. Would you have the energy to go out with the teachers whose english is only marginally better than your students when you've been stuck in the trenches all week???? On top of that they want you to spend your saturdays with them.
Teaching here is deeply challenging yet its still kinda fun. But... I'm not superman, I need my own time to recharge.
My dept head comes back Monday, we'll have a chat |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't think that you should 'have a chat'-- that would be making an issue of it when it shouldn't be one. Go to the next dinner or whatever, put in an appearance, and keep looking around... when you realize that four or five people are missing/have left, that's your cue. It shouldn't take more than an hour or two.
I guess it's different if you work at a school where everyone drinks/parties/gets along royally (or if the principal/VP forces everyone to drink), but in a lot of cases, if you actually go, you'll realize that a lot of other people feel the exact same way that you do. It's not about being comfortable, it's about putting in your time and self-sacrifice in the name of a greater harmony- this is a key part of Korean/East Asian society and if you're not willing to do it then people will think you're being selfish and they won't like you.
Most of the people we work with have families/chores... and the dinners are keeping them away from that. I'm guessing that you don't have either, really... GO, or at the very least, don't make an issue of it, because that's probably the worst possible thing that you could do. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:12 am Post subject: |
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winterfall, I've been to like five dinners in three years and it's not an issue.
just talk to your dept head and together figure out what this loon is up to. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
winterfall, I've been to like five dinners in three years and it's not an issue.
just talk to your dept head and together figure out what this loon is up to. |
Yup I talked to my dept head today. I let them know I stay as long as its convenient and he got the drift immediately. He talked to the dept head, vp, principal, and head office manager. Came back to me a few hrs later and told me no the message doesn't come from the school. Its just a guy on a power trip.
So the problem solved. Thanks everybody  |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| winterfall wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
winterfall, I've been to like five dinners in three years and it's not an issue.
just talk to your dept head and together figure out what this loon is up to. |
Yup I talked to my dept head today. I let them know I stay as long as its convenient and he got the drift immediately. He talked to the dept head, vp, principal, and head office manager. Came back to me a few hrs later and told me no the message doesn't come from the school. Its just a guy on a power trip.
So the problem solved. Thanks everybody |
yeah, but what was it he wanted you to do in the first place? since you attend the joint teacher dinners, etc? |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
| winterfall wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
winterfall, I've been to like five dinners in three years and it's not an issue.
just talk to your dept head and together figure out what this loon is up to. |
Yup I talked to my dept head today. I let them know I stay as long as its convenient and he got the drift immediately. He talked to the dept head, vp, principal, and head office manager. Came back to me a few hrs later and told me no the message doesn't come from the school. Its just a guy on a power trip.
So the problem solved. Thanks everybody |
yeah, but what was it he wanted you to do in the first place? since you attend the joint teacher dinners, etc? |
Actually I did some digging. and this is where knowing korean but letting the school think you don't know is helpful. I found out the problem is a difference in how they see me. My last office manager considered me a full fledged teacher, so he expected me to be more or less the same as the Korean teachers except I don't work weekends or week nights but, still should come in on desk warming days and school ceremonies, the like.
My new office manager just thinks I'm an overpaid English monkey, that I don't do anything and my job is brain-dead easy. Since I "Obviously" have so much free time, I should make myself "Useful" and spend every chance with the teachers. And because I'm not a teacher I shouldn't have to come to school ceremonies. Of course he didn't say this to my face, but I understood enough, the other teachers in the office knew what he meant when my new office manager told me not to come to school wednesday for a welcoming ceremony for the newly hired teachers (We hired 4 and I interviewed 2 of em) and the rest of teachers in the office were arguing with him about it, saying I should come.
Ehh... whatever, I'll meet the new teachers later at school events anyway. Wait.. I think I already met them all, the other teachers introduced them to me.
So yea regardless of what this guy thinks, my overall relationship with my school and the teachers is the same. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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this guy's opinion on what you're paid, the amount of your free time, and your usefulness is useless.
it's precisely because of morons like him that the govt started the NET program over opposition from unionized "teachers" just like him.
the relationships that are important are your co teachers, your dep head and then vp and p.
people like him.. well they can do "many things", but the one thing they cannot do is order you around on their whim.
So tell him to do something else.
the one I have in mind for him involves him only and is anatomically impossible.
obviously you're best off keeping at least distantly "friendly" relationships with everyone that is combined with S.N.I.P. but if that's what he was saying about you.. well.... one can "snip" only so far  |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
this guy's opinion on what you're paid, the amount of your free time, and your usefulness is useless.
it's precisely because of morons like him that the govt started the NET program over opposition from unionized "teachers" just like him.
the relationships that are important are your co teachers, your dep head and then vp and p.
people like him.. well they can do "many things", but the one thing they cannot do is order you around on their whim.
So tell him to do something else.
the one I have in mind for him involves him only and is anatomically impossible.
obviously you're best off keeping at least distantly "friendly" relationships with everyone that is combined with S.N.I.P. but if that's what he was saying about you.. well.... one can "snip" only so far |
Him I'm not too sure about it. It could be his own bias or it could be related to what happened before. After my first yr, I forced out a Korean English Teaching assistant. He's the Korean version of us, yearly contract, unlicensed and slightly less pay than us. He started at the school about a week after I did. Long story short, I did not get along with this guy, we argued a lot, almost everyday. Usually involved me screaming at him about being an idiot and him yelling back that I'm too inexperienced to know what teaching is. He is and will always be the most unqualified, completely incompetent arrogant, worthless teacher I've ever met or heard about.
Anyway towards the end of my contract, I told the school either you fire him or I'm leaving. They didn't take it seriously until a bunch of recruiters started calling the school for references. What I didn't know was that the school was gonna fire him anyway. There was A LOT of complaints about him from homeroom teachers, students,parents, everyone. Every time someone talked to him about something he did, he'd argue back. Argued with everyone, dept head, vp, principal, owner, even the education office. So the school tried to fire him after the 1st 3 months, and every month after that but the education office blocked it for some reason. Told the school the only thing they could do was to block his renewal so he wouldn't be able to stay at the school.
Even though the school was gonna fire him anyway, my ultimatum gave them a very face saving excuse so they didn't have look like the bad guy. So that's what was told to all the teachers, the school was forced to make a choice rather than something they were gonna do anyway. The few friends that he's had at the school have always been bitter against me about that. The guy that was fired was not popular, less than 2% of the school actually liked him. Though its possible my new office manager was one of them.
The guy that was fired was just shuffled to another school in another district. Heard they forced him out the old fashioned way, passive aggressive way. Giving an inhumane amount of work and just stressing him out until he left on his own. For some reason my school didn't do that, think my dept head is too nice |
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