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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Homer
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 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| And just showing up, implicates us teachers in the ongoing exploitation. |
I think not my good man.
As long as you take your job seriously and put effort into it you are not exploiting anyone.
Many teachers go to great lenghts to make sure their students learn properly.
Of course, many don't and thats pretty sad. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
And as TECO reminded everyone, the educational intent of this industry is window-dressing for business and profit. Schools exploit the competitive thirst that Korean mothers have for their children's education. And just showing up, implicates us teachers in the ongoing exploitation. |
First up not all of us are here 'just for the money'. Not all of us do privates. Some of us actually take an interest in doing a good job. And big surprise not all of us work in the private sector.
Do I think lying and cheating are wrong. Yes. Do think what goes around comes around absolutly. If you don't have a degree don't come here. If you get deported, I don't have any sympathy. If you lie to your employer about your credentials don't be surprised if they lie to you or find ways of getting out of the contract later. It's called taking responsbilty for your actions.
In the end for every action that a teacher takes here is going to have another reaction on someone else at some point. Much in the same way you should leave an apartment in a good condition for the next tenant. |
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dodgybarnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Location: Directly above the centre of the earth. On a kickboard.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:17 am Post subject: |
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I pretty much expected to get spanked for suggesting forgery, but the level of morel high-horsing has surprised me.
In the UK I would not / have not faked my qualifications, so why did I suggest doing so in Asia? Well I guess mainly because this IS asia we're talking about... I fully accept that most employers are going to try and screw me over, so boosting my qualifications levels the playing field a bit. Asia is one of the most openly corrupt places I've ever experience (I've never been to the white house).
[ducks rocks thrown by crazylemongirl]
Okay calm down, as it turns out I WONT be faking my degree because the other posters are right that immigration will check up on it.
Yes I'm a bad boy for contemplating this trickery, but I bought my ticket to hell years ago.
I admit that it's terrible that I condemn dodgy employers but contemplate being dodgy myself, but this is the real world we live in where people are mean and tricky, so I'm perfectly prepared to play by the same rules.
Who would have thought I'd get stomped on for having a less-than-pure thought? |
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ryleeys
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Don't take it personally man... this is the same board where I was slammed for not informing my employer that she has been paying me 2 million per month when my contract only says 1.9... the those same people (some of them anyway) would be discussing how they refuse to pay back student loans on "moral" grounds (not wanting to make bankers richer.
Such is life on Dave's ESL.
Last edited by ryleeys on Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Who would have thought I'd get stomped on for having a less-than-pure thought? |
well you asked what we thought and we will give you the answer. I don't think that you need to go down to their level. Also there are some decent employers at there who really don't deserve the stuff they get. (remember those who get stuffed tend to complain)
| ryleeys wrote: |
the those same people (some of them anyway) would be discussing how they refuse to pay back student loans on "moral" grounds (not wanting to make bankers richer.
Such is life on Dave's ESL. |
damn my student loan is the name of:
However I am only making the new zealand goverment richer by paying it back. |
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dodgybarnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Location: Directly above the centre of the earth. On a kickboard.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| well you asked what we thought and we will give you the answer. |
Ha! I'd expect nothing less. Nothing like a good flamewar to get the blood going. All comments appreciated.
Wait till I post my idea about selling my students to human slave trafficers to pay for my red wine addiction...
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Oh, and I owe buckets of cash to lovely student loans too, although now in the UK it isn't owned by queeny - she sold it to a loans company in Glasgow who would happily send Knuckles MacTavish round your house to reposes your kneecaps. Personally I'm going for the "earn less than the cuttoff for 25 years and it all gets cancelled" approach. Oh, and you don't have to pay it off it you die either, but that's a last resort really. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dodgybarnet wrote: |
| Personally I'm going for the "earn less than the cuttoff for 25 years and it all gets cancelled" approach. Oh, and you don't have to pay it off it you die either, but that's a last resort really. |
damn the only way I can avoid my student loan is if I
Die
Become bankrupt
Live overseas forever. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| dodgybarnet wrote: |
Okay calm down, as it turns out I WONT be faking my degree because the other posters are right that immigration will check up on it.
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Actually, Immigration doesn't verify degrees. Not even on a random basis. That's another eslcafe old wive's tale that is taking a long time to die.
They look for visual clues for authentication. 'Why is your name on your degree, not the same as the one on your passport?' (I've triggered this question when processing E2s with teachers that have discrepancies with middle names/marriage name changes)
Sometimes, the excessiveness of Latin on a degree throws them off and they think it is a degree from a non-english speaking country. I had this happen to a teacher last year. Small misunderstanding.
Sometimes, the location (or rather, absence of a location) on a degree raises eyebrows. Fake degrees/life achievement degrees rarely ever have an address or location on the degree/transcripts. If your degree/transcripts are vague in the whereabouts of your school, this sometimes (but rarely), may cause a stir.
The only ones that usually catch a fake degree, are honest recruiters and foreign head teachers. I never thought much of verifying when I started recruiting, as I was naive to the amount of fakes that are out there. It was only until a head foreign teacher (whom I had introduced the teachers resume to), that he looked into it, and realized that the school was a life achievement degree issuer/diploma mill.
Although, I don't verify degrees that come from legit schools, I do background checks on schools whose names don't ring a bell to me (which are a lot). When I started doing it more routinely, I came across 4 teachers trying to pawn fake degrees in the first 2 weeks of checking.
Anyways, the point that I was trying to make, is that through my dealings and discussion with immigration, reps from the ministry of education, and embassy/consular affairs officials over the past few years, there is no in-depth verification process on degrees. The only ones that catch it from time to time are responsible recruiters and schools (and even then, that's a remote anomaly.) |
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dodgybarnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Location: Directly above the centre of the earth. On a kickboard.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Well I actually have a valid 4-year degree certificate, I was just thinking of airbrushing the 'B' into a 'M' - the reason being is that a friend of mine from Uni did the same course as me but got the MA because he was from the Arts Faculty (see previous post for explanation) and he's managed to get pay rises all over China because of his masters.
So my initial idea was to do the same - squeeze a slightly higher rate of pay out of future employers.
Then again he's a bullsh!t artist and could probably wangle a pay rise by saying he's the king of Ireland or some such rubbish.
After having read various posts on this forum I get the impression that I probably wouldn't get that much more pay by being a MSc rather than a BSc anyhow, so there's little point in Photoshopping my degree. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| dodgybarnet wrote: |
Okay calm down, as it turns out I WONT be faking my degree because the other posters are right that immigration will check up on it.
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Actually, Immigration doesn't verify degrees. Not even on a random basis. That's another eslcafe old wive's tale that is taking a long time to die.
They look for visual clues for authentication. 'Why is your name on your degree, not the same as the one on your passport?' (I've triggered this question when processing E2s with teachers that have discrepancies with middle names/marriage name changes)
Sometimes, the excessiveness of Latin on a degree throws them off and they think it is a degree from a non-english speaking country. I had this happen to a teacher last year. Small misunderstanding.
Sometimes, the location (or rather, absence of a location) on a degree raises eyebrows. Fake degrees/life achievement degrees rarely ever have an address or location on the degree/transcripts. If your degree/transcripts are vague in the whereabouts of your school, this sometimes (but rarely), may cause a stir.
The only ones that usually catch a fake degree, are honest recruiters and foreign head teachers. I never thought much of verifying when I started recruiting, as I was naive to the amount of fakes that are out there. It was only until a head foreign teacher (whom I had introduced the teachers resume to), that he looked into it, and realized that the school was a life achievement degree issuer/diploma mill.
Although, I don't verify degrees that come from legit schools, I do background checks on schools whose names don't ring a bell to me (which are a lot). When I started doing it more routinely, I came across 4 teachers trying to pawn fake degrees in the first 2 weeks of checking.
Anyways, the point that I was trying to make, is that through my dealings and discussion with immigration, reps from the ministry of education, and embassy/consular affairs officials over the past few years, there is no in-depth verification process on degrees. The only ones that catch it from time to time are responsible recruiters and schools (and even then, that's a remote anomaly.) |
I guess you are right and wrong. Immigration doesn't see your degree, so you are right they won't catch it. The Minstry of Education does check it out. Don't believe me? I've seen people denied before based on their documents. I've had the MoE comeby my school to "check up" on the teacher's degrees and transcripts. This happened about 6yrs ago when I worked at ECC. (We had to go home and get our papers) and it happened about 3yrs ago at the high school I work at.
Would you want to risk getting black listed and deported just for a few 100k a month extra? (If you don't have a degree at all, I guess ya got nothing to lose but a bit of pay) |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: |
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For those Canadians that have student loans outstand...
Have you been following the slush fund that the Liberals had for their supports in Quebec?
$500,000 for a 25 page report from a Liberal supporting consulting firm and we don't even know the half of it yet.
You would have to be a complete idiot to to worry about paying back your student loan in Canada, in my opinon.
The politicains waste and steal millions of tax dollars every day. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:13 am Post subject: |
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So TECO..they cheat so you can or should?
Is that your life logic? |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Homer, you sound slow. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Sound?
You can hear on here TECO...? 
Oh did I forget to mention that your opinion of me matters as much as a fart in the wind. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| You're argumentative. |
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