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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| It's being contained pretty effectively so far |
Todays reports suggest otherwise. Radiation levels are rising. Air drops have been abandoned: they are now using pressure hoses from a distance.
A news article gave a reading of 14 milisieverts per hour at 1000ft above the plant, and 87 milisieverts per hour at 300ft.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78796.html
Thus we can safely assume a level today of at least 250 milisieverts per hour at ground zero.
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| Just how many people do you think this "dangerous technology" has killed in the last 60 years? |
How many cancer deaths and long-term health effects from chernobyl and other accidents? Anyones guess.
...question for you: how many deaths from radiation at Fallujah?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20241
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| Even a complete meltdown in this case should be isolated by the containment building. |
Containment buildings were ruptured by the earlier explosions. They must have been for radiation to escape and levels to rise. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| Back to the scene in Fukishima, they're currently dropping water on the reactors from helicopters and spraying from firetrucks because the radiation levels are too high for the workers to get close enough to do it on-site. Anyone have any idea what those levels actually are? How effective could water drops and sprays possibly be? |
This is the question on everyone's mind. All this talk of harmless micro-sieverts is getting old. What matters is how much radiation is outside the plants, how much is going to spread, what kind of elements have been released and what impact that's going to have long term. If it blows into the mountains and enters the water table it will contaminate everything for decades (or possibly much longer).
After seeing the diagrams of the MOX reactors on the news, it clearly shows that spent fuel was being stored outside the reactor containment, basically in bins attached to the ceiling (almost like scaffolding). It doesn't take a nuclear engineer to figure out what might have happenend when the whole thing blew sky high.
And the officials are just downplaying it, saying there's not serious radiation, while the levels are so high there's nobody there on the ground doing anything. Sending in a few choppers for 45 minutes a day to trickle some water over it doesn't inspire much confidence...
Anyway, I hate being negative - I honestly hope they can succeed in any way possible, as quickly as possible. I just can't believe this all is happening. I was planning to go back to Tokyo next month.
Last edited by visitorq on Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Man, I just saw those miserable attempts to douse the reactors using helicoptors. That ain't gonna cut it.
Hey, Pentagon, don't you have some kind of smart-bomb water balloon? If not then get some twelve year-old to help you design one. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| while the levels are so high there's nobody there on the ground doing anything. |
Right. This is what I thought. If quoted radiation levels at the plant are genuine, then it is strange that they are limiting workers there to a brief few minutes.
That suggests radiation is a lot higher than reported, more like in the 1500 milisieverts per hour range.
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| I hate being negative - I honestly hope they can succeed in any way possible, as quickly as possible. |
Absolutely. Keep the prayers going.
Rumour is they will be re-connecting electricity supply soon. That will relieve things, but only if the pumps have not been damged by tsunami seawater. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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So how long do all you dittoheads think it'll take to cross from the West Coast to the East?
Hey, somethingawful, you sure have gone quiet.
Last edited by Space Bar on Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| while the levels are so high there's nobody there on the ground doing anything. |
Right. This is what I thought. If quoted radiation levels at the plant are genuine, then it is strange that they are limiting workers there to a brief few minutes.
That suggests radiation is a lot higher than reported, more like in the 1500 milisieverts per hour range.
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| I hate being negative - I honestly hope they can succeed in any way possible, as quickly as possible. |
Absolutely. Keep the prayers going.
Rumour is they will be re-connecting electricity supply soon. That will relieve things, but only if the pumps have not been damged by tsunami seawater. |
After a 9.0 earthquake, a 15m tsunami, several explosions and fires, and a weeks' worth of meltdown, I really do not have faith that what amounts to a glorified changing of a power cord is going to do much. Even if they get power to the cooling system, how much of that system has actually remained functional? I hope my pessimism isn't warranted here. |
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hkverde
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: Nuclear effects on Korea |
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| I'm scheduled to fly to Korea to begin my GEPIK assignment on Saturday (3/19). I'm wondering if anyone currently in Korea can tell me what they're hearing there in terms of nuclear effects on Korea. I'm debating canceling or delaying my trip.... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Well, hkverde, according to some academics and scientists speaking under the auspices of something called the Korea Green Foundation, the radiation is unlikely to spread to Korea. (see link)
But make of that what you will. At this point, I might be hesitant about taking anyone's word as gospel on what's going to happen in the next little while. I'm not aware of any huge exodus of foreigners from Korea, so public opinion might be on the side of thinking this will be nothing major for the peninsula.
Maybe try to consult a few authorities in the field over in your home country, see what other people are saying?
link
Last edited by On the other hand on Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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And hkverde, you might want to check out The Marmot's Hole. It's a blog based in Korea, written by an American expat, which covers events over here. If there were some official warning about the radiation heading this way, or a mass stampede of expats out of here, it would probably be covered on that blog.
Plus, he links to a lot of other Korean-oriented blogs. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| this will be nothing major for the peninsula. |
That thinking is based on the assumption that a) There will be no meltdown and b) Prevailing winds will carry radiation away from korea.
Quite a premature position to be taking up.
All 4 reactors could go into meltdown and burn for weeks. It could supercede chernobyl and Korea could be first port of call for any radiation cloud.
However..there are also the little boys with their nuclear toys up north to worry about...
Abnormal Radiation Detected Near Korean Border
June 21, 2010
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/21/abnormal-radiation-detected-near-korean-border/ |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Quite a premature position to be taking up.
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For the record, I wasn't neccessarily endorsing that view, just saying that it's what we could possibly surmise as the prevailing opinion among expats, assuming that there isn't a mass exodus taking place.
But I guess we could also canvas the readership of Dave's and ask if anyone IS planning a previously unscheduled return right now. I'm personally not, but what about others? |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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I think we need to keep things a little bit in perspective. Seoul is over 1200km away from Tokyo. There's worthwhile debate about how susceptible Tokyo is, but I have not heard any expert suggest that any other country was in danger as well.
I honestly think in these situations or any other emergency, if you get lost in all the government propaganda and media sensationalism, the best thing to do is keep an eye on your embassy or government travel advisories. Here's the one for Canada, and here's Canada's travel advisory for Japan, in particular. Note that everywhere except the Tokyo and the quake-affected region is listed in the safest category. Fukishima is listed in the most dangerous category (Avoid all travel).
I trust it more than any other source, because more than any other organization, they must balance the interests of their nationals and the interests of their host nation. Travel insurance agencies also base their risks on these warnings as well, and how much a company is willing to insure you to travel to a place is as as good a sign as any other how serious a situation is.
You'll have to make your own mind up, but personally, if I was in Tokyo, I'd very cautiously remain, but if I wasn't there and planned on going there, I'd postpone or cancel my travel plans. If I was in 80km of Fukishima, I'd leave. Everywhere else is not a concern to me at this time. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| I think we need to keep things a little bit in perspective. |
This is asking a lot from we in the CE forum. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
So how long do all you dittoheads think it'll take to cross from the West Coast to the East? |
The solution to pollution is dilution, Ba.
(I heard some medical guru say that today on TV during Japan coverage.) |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
So how long do all you dittoheads think it'll take to cross from the West Coast to the East? |
The solution to pollution is dilution, Ba.
(I heard some medical guru say that today on TV during Japan coverage.) |
Ah, yes, to dilute is astute (and cute!), ca.
(I made that up myself.) |
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