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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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 Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: Gay Man in Pennsylvania Stoned to Death |
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"According to the criminal complaint, John Thomas, 28, of a Philadelphia suburb, told police he killed Murray Seidman of nearby Lansdowne because the Bible refers to stoning homosexuals.
" 'I stoned Murray with a rock in a sock,' Thomas told police, according to the criminal complaint.
"Thomas was arrested and charged with murder Friday.
"According to the complaint, 'John Thomas stated that he read in the Old Testament that homosexuals should be stoned in certain situations. The answer John Thomas received from his prayers was to put an end to the victim's life. John Thomas stated that he struck the victim approximately 10 times in the head. After the final blow, John Thomas made sure the victim was dead.' "
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/18/philly-cops-elderly-man-stoned-death-allegedly-making-unwanted-sexual-advances/#ixzz1HD4dVs5x |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Its not a religious issue, its a psychological issue.
Every religious person understands you are supposed to throw it.
He obviously never read the small print, and if he missed that then he missed the updated version.
If an athiest wants to argue this case as a reason for non religion in the world, well I have a backlog of examples of violence carried out by the Soviet Union or the CCP as a reason why atheism isn't a winner either.
So, lets just stop the flaming now. It never won the war over the past 10 yrs I saw it on this forum, its not likely to win it now. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: |
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John Thomas suffered from schizophrenia according the blog of someone who attended church with him:
"Another ward friend who was closer to John Thomas than I was, told me that John Thomas had decided to stop taking his medicine, believing he did not need it and that sincere prayer would be sufficient. Apparently it was not...
"Schizophrenia and other mental illness often have a habit of latching on to extreme religious thoughts...
"And so I return to the bizarre news that a Mormon from my ward, who I knew as an odd but devout and sincere believer, has confessed to murdering another member of my ward by stoning to death for 'unwanted homosexual advances'. I will probably never understand it because it is beyond understanding how the mind goes wrong in the diseased state and what horrors it can lead to..."
http://curie-us.blogspot.com/2011/03/mormon-murder-musings.html |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Every religious person understands you are supposed to throw it. |
The rock?
Evidently not "every religious person".
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| He obviously never read the small print, and if he missed that then he missed the updated version. |
The Bible has footnotes? I don't know about this "updated" version that explicitly states that it's not OK to stone homosexuals to death either.
Yes, the guy was obviously unstable, but his church is at least partly to blame for leading him to believe that prayer would make him better. Notice I said "church", not "religion".
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| If an athiest wants to argue this case as a reason for non religion in the world, well I have a backlog of examples of violence carried out by the Soviet Union or the CCP as a reason why atheism isn't a winner either. |
Got anything recent?
I think we can all agree that forcing any belief (or non-belief) system on a populace is a bad idea. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| Yes, the guy was obviously unstable, but his church is at least partly to blame for leading him to believe that prayer would make him better. |
Neither article makes any mention of Thomas confessing to his pastor that he was planning to stone a homosexual. Neither article makes any mention of Thomas being told to abandon medicine in favor of prayer. The closest one comes is, "John Thomas had decided to stop taking his medicine, believing he did not need it and that sincere prayer would be sufficient." It was entirely a personal decision.
So no, according to the information we have so far, his church cannot be blamed. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| So no, according to the information we have so far, his church cannot be blamed. |
True, but also nowhere does it mention that his pastor/church discouraged him from stopping the meds in favor of prayer. They did know he had stopped taking them. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Well according to the Old Testament he could stone someone for collecting wood on the Sabbath or for adultery too. I can't remember if it mentions anything about some court procedure beforehand or if it's OK for an ordinary citizen to carry it out. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| NovaKart wrote: |
| Well according to the Old Testament he could stone someone for collecting wood on the Sabbath or for adultery too. I can't remember if it mentions anything about some court procedure beforehand or if it's OK for an ordinary citizen to carry it out. |
I am glad to knew there is someone here who is knowledgeable in this area. Of course, when someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. But I have some other Scriptural questions for you:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual unseemliness - Lev. 15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Space Bac |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Now, I'm no theologian but why would Christians go around enforcing Jewish law? Does the NT not supersede the OT? What did JC have to say about queers and farming techniques? A Christian should act like Christ, so instead of stoning queers go after the money changers. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| I have a backlog of examples of violence carried out by the Soviet Union or the CCP as a reason why atheism isn't a winner either. |
Their lack of religiosity wasn't the reason they committed so much murder; it was their fanatical belief in a religion called Communism |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we can safely pin a lot of the blame for the schizophrenia on John Thomas' parents for sticking him with that name. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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^Damn, I didn't catch that! Yeah, the parents really dropped the ball there.
It's gotta be tough when people snicker (or crack up) every time they hear your name. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| A Christian should act like Christ, so instead of stoning queers go after the money changers. |
Maybe they should, but they don't and won't. Based on our limited historical information about Jesus, we can safely conclude that a large percentage of modern American Christians would hate him and everything he stood for, and the greater part of the rest would range from disdain to neutral indifference. The feeling would probably be mutual. |
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Goodgoings
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Now, I'm no theologian but why would Christians go around enforcing Jewish law? Does the NT not supersede the OT? What did JC have to say about queers and farming techniques? A Christian should act like Christ, so instead of stoning queers go after the money changers. |
So does this mean that I can give a swift kick in the back of the old money changers in Namdaemun? Or, which one should I take? A queer in the hand or two money changers in the bush? |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Its not a religious issue, its a psychological issue.
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agreed |
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