Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Are the wealthiest countries the smartest countries?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fat_Elvis



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Fat_Elvis wrote:
mises wrote:
Andrea_andrea wrote:

Tests are made relative to a culture.


Nonsense. Total nonsense. You people will say anything if it allows the fraud to go on another day.

Genetic and other biological research will do to liberal ideas of egalitarianism what anthropology and Darwin did to creationism.


There was no mention of genetics in the short piece on the study you originally posted, as far as I could see.


http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/getfile.php?file=Race.pdf


Wow, you found a scholar who argues for applying concepts of race. That's nice. There's still no mention of genetics in the study mentioned in your original post.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Menino80



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:


All dolphins are mammals. Not all mammals are dolphins.



OK, well if dolphins killed 10 million people in Europe, I'd think that using the word "dolphin" in a discussion of mammals would come off as pointedly inflammatory and require some kind of further explanation. It's a rhetorical poop-bomb

Quote:

Anyways, I agree with you and your description of a sensible path. I'd include a social credit monetary system, or some variation of.


agreed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so indignant right now!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koveras wrote:
I'm so indignant right now!


That's because you've majored in indignance studies and know precisely when and how to be indignant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Koveras wrote:
I'm so indignant right now!


That's because you've majored in indignance studies and know precisely when and how to be indignant.


You, sir, have an impeded understanding of indignance studies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kimbop



Joined: 31 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Menin80, I apologize for my vitriol. I did see an issue with "Confucianism leading to prosperity", or whatever you said. Confucianism certinaly does seem to correlate with intelligence, however.

Particularly, I find the chicken-egg dilemma difficult to prove, but there seem to be many correlates.

Anyway; does state led development, or national socialism -- or whatever you want to call it -- really lead to a higher intelligence quotient among a practicing country's people? Or are intelligent, sane people first required, along with the appropriate cultural factors? ie; the opposite of Haitians or Waziristanis.

Democracy can't exist among certain muslim peoples, and I reckon that state-led development also cannot function properly in certain countries.

Also, dumb people tend to make dumb babies, so this has to factor in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kcs0001



Joined: 24 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wechsler intelligence test is a generally accepted measure of intelligence. It's an aptitude and IQ test. If you read IQ and the Wealth of Nations
http://www.amazon.com/IQ-Wealth-Nations-Richard-Lynn/dp/027597510X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301266209&sr=8-1

you will find many ironies. Why is Japan the third largest economy on the planet with little in the way native resources- coal, shale, petroleum reserves, copper, silver, or gold ore? Why does Nigeria with a very low IQ base (around 74) have a higher GDP than North Korea with a high IQ base (bell curve) 105?

Toynbee also gives his take on taxonomy in his 1934 work. Also read Albert Schweitzer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcs0001 wrote:
The wechsler intelligence test is a generally accepted measure of intelligence. It's an aptitude and IQ test. If you read IQ and the Wealth of Nations
http://www.amazon.com/IQ-Wealth-Nations-Richard-Lynn/dp/027597510X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301266209&sr=8-1

you will find many ironies. Why is Japan the third largest economy on the planet with little in the way native resources- coal, shale, petroleum reserves, copper, silver, or gold ore? Why does Nigeria with a very low IQ base (around 74) have a higher GDP than North Korea with a high IQ base (bell curve) 105?

Toynbee also gives his take on taxonomy in his 1934 work. Also read Albert Schweitzer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer


First of all, correlation is not the same thing as causation.

Further, some (if not many or most) of the statistics are simply invalid. Why should Vietnam's average IQ be the average of China and Thailand's? In fact, there is very little relation historically and linguistically speaking between Vietnam and Thailand. Do the author's really expect us to believe that Ethiopians have an average IQ of 65? If that were truly the case, then it would be a highly impressive feat that they are even able to speak a complex language and can farm. And what about the fact that many of these average scores are actually based off of average scores of a limited set of immigrants who were taking the exams in a language foreign to them (for example, Turkey's average IQ was derived from Turkish immigrants taking the IQ test in Dutch)?

Sorry, there are simply too many questionable things in this book that simply do not jive with actual reality.

Of course, national wealth probably does lead a greater "average IQ score", but does that actually have anything to do intelligence? If we are talking about having greater access to nutrition, there probably is a small amount of causation from this. But if a nation is not wealthy and does not see fit to administer IQ tests, then suddenly its statistics for IQ's will come from immigrants who left its country and took the IQ test in a foreign language.

So, there you have it. The authors managed to take a lot of questionable and invalid data and give it the thin facade of scholariness while drawing conclusions from it. I suppose that we should applaud them for finding a way to make some money from shoddy scholarship.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read most of The 10,000-Year Explosion. It was a good book, and convinced me that there are various racial differences among different ethnicities around the world. But it also convinced me that favorable alleles do manage to rise to the top given any opportunity for racial intermixing. Also, I'm a lot more sanguine about ancient and medieval warfare, given its opportunity to spread favorable alleles, from the Hyksos to Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan. The authors are very tentative about the final implications of their findings, and I await further evidence and discovery of genetic history and sampling. As it is, the authors only had data on European-American, Far Eastern (Chinese and Japanese), and Nigerian populations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
kcs0001



Joined: 24 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are desperate for evidence that Charles Murray is wrong. Look, you can make your own choice. People with an IQ of 80 or below tend to be unemployable in a developed economy X-agriculture. The jobs that illegal Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans now do are in fact the jobs that African Americans used to do. Instead, the U.S. Gov't pays African Americans not to work- producing things like Detroit, St. Louis, West Memphis, and S. Chicago.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Menino80



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcs0001 wrote:
People are desperate for evidence that Charles Murray is wrong. Look, you can make your own choice. People with an IQ of 80 or below tend to be unemployable in a developed economy X-agriculture. The jobs that illegal Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans now do are in fact the jobs that African Americans used to do. Instead, the U.S. Gov't pays African Americans not to work- producing things like Detroit, St. Louis, West Memphis, and S. Chicago.


The loss of the manufacturing industry did that. Blame WWII for not destroying other countries more completely.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrea_andrea



Joined: 08 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Fat_Elvis wrote:
mises wrote:
Andrea_andrea wrote:

Tests are made relative to a culture.


Nonsense. Total nonsense. You people will say anything if it allows the fraud to go on another day.

Genetic and other biological research will do to liberal ideas of egalitarianism what anthropology and Darwin did to creationism.


There was no mention of genetics in the short piece on the study you originally posted, as far as I could see.


http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/getfile.php?file=Race.pdf


http://medicine.yale.edu/labs/kidd/440.pdf
Abstract
In this article, the authors argue that the overwhelming portion of the literature on intelligence, race, and genetics is based on folk taxonomies rather than scientific analysis.They suggest that because theorists of intelligence disagree as to what it is, any consideration of its relationships to other constructs must be tentative at best. They further argue that race is a social construction with no scientific definition. Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends. No gene has yet been conclusively linked to intelligence, so attempts to provide a compelling genetic link of race to intelligence are not feasible at this time. The authors also show that heritability, a behavior genetic concept, is inadequate in regard to providing such a link.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caniff_caniff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends.


Translation?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends.


It can't serve both? A comprehensive study could perhaps yield neurological insights into the mind of your neighborhood Archie Bunker.

(heads up to Fox who just translated then deleted)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International