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New Prin. and VP don't like me. Can I stay in the PS sys?
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ThingsComeAround

Joined: 07 Nov 2008

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject:

isitts wrote:

The last principal I still hang out with sometimes. I just attended his son's wedding two weeks ago and said hi to my former VP, who was also there. If those two were still here, I'd be fine.

The new principal isn't even social with the Korean teachers. Nor is the VP. Sp I'm not the only one having problems with them.

If you aren't the only one, it isn't your problem. It's their problem.

Don't worry about leaving. Get your co-T to sign off on any papers and leave. All she needs is the P signature, not his "official opinion" of you.

Fishead soup

Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject:

ThingsComeAround wrote:

isitts wrote:

If the majority of the teachers don't like the Principal/Vice Principal they will collectively get rid of him/her at the end of the year usually around March. Some Principals get bad reputation that travel from one school to the next. If your school is planning a mutany which happens a lot then you'll be fine.
There are a lot of Principals that get transfered every year. This happens because everyone at their school hates them. The Kyo-Yukcheon know about these principals and they can't fire them. You can also move to another region or province

isitts

Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:58 am Post subject:

ThingsComeAround wrote:

isitts wrote:

Good to know. Thanks.

So do I just collect my documents and give them to whatever school wants me?( Or I should say, whatever school I decide to go with?) That's what I'm guessing.

isitts

Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:10 am Post subject:

Fishead soup wrote:

ThingsComeAround wrote:

isitts wrote:

Well, they came in September, a few months after I renewed (July). So, I'd be out before them. And one of my co-teachers said that a principal and VP are at a school at least 2 years before they get transferred.

Actually, there already was something of an uprising from this same co-teacher at one of the teachers meetings. Wish I'd been there to see it. Unfortunately, she's the only teacher with a backbone. But she did get the prinicipal to apologize to her. So that's something.

We'll see. If there are forces bigger than the administration, I have a chance. But it's not just a matter of whether they want to keep me. I wouldn't leave my fate completely up to them. It's also a matter of whether I want to stay.

I can put up with a lot of what-have-you, but if they try to violoate the paid vacation terms again, I don't want to stay here.

Anyway, thank you for your comments, everyone!

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:34 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

At any rate, I don't want to argue again with the principal and VP that I get 20 days + two weeks vacation.

You have a contract for a reason. Jackass bosses are the reason.

Quote:

When I told the VP about the vacation time, she said, "That's too much."

If you'd asked her what her salary was and then told her that's too much, do you seriously think she'd waive any of her salary?

Quote:

I had to teach 4 weeks of winter camp last January and only got to take a trip home in February because my ticket was non-refundable. GEPIK office wasn't all that helpful.

Huh? You waived your vacation? Did you happen to get compensated for lost vacation?

Who at GEPIK did you talk to? Whoever it was might've soiled themselves had you brought up the Labor Board.

Quote:

So even if somehow the administration is compelled to keep me, I really don't want to stay with them.

So Ijust want to know the logistics of changing. Especially because I thought that I need a letter from the prinicipal documenting my time at the school and recommending me to the next school in order to keep my pay scale.

You're not employed by the school. You're employed by the POE. The principal's input in your recontracting process is to assign you a numerical score based on a (supposed) observation of an open class. Your part of the recontracting process is first to apply for renewal. On the renewal application, you can request to transfer to another school.

Here's another fun little fact. You know that finance office in the school? The financial supervisor isn't there to hold the floor down. The financial supervisor is there because the principal is responsible for how the public funds are spent and it's not responsible for, say, the principal to spend the money on a stripper party for his favorite nephew. Also irresponsible is over-time pay and compensation for lost vacation because the principal refused to honor the terms of a contract.

I've posted it many times here, but here goes again. There really is a chain of supervision you can use and it will work if you use it:

Supervising co-teacher (aka "handler")
Department head
Vice-principal
Principal
School inspector at district Office of Education
Supervisor of GETs at the POE

That should be as far as you should need to go to get satisfaction. If that still doesn't work, then you hit up these two folks:

Deputy Superintendent of Education for the province/metropolitan city
Superintendent of Education for the province/metropolitan city

If you're still getting shafted, then it's off to the Labor Board. And not a single one of the people listed above wants to be explaining to their immediate supervisor why the POE's getting dragged into a labor case.

isitts

Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject:

CentralCali wrote:

isitts wrote:

At any rate, I don't want to argue again with the principal and VP that I get 20 days + two weeks vacation.

You have a contract for a reason. Jackass bosses are the reason.

Quote:

When I told the VP about the vacation time, she said, "That's too much."

If you'd asked her what her salary was and then told her that's too much, do you seriously think she'd waive any of her salary?

Quote:

I had to teach 4 weeks of winter camp last January and only got to take a trip home in February because my ticket was non-refundable. GEPIK office wasn't all that helpful.

Huh? You waived your vacation? Did you happen to get compensated for lost vacation?

Who at GEPIK did you talk to? Whoever it was might've soiled themselves had you brought up the Labor Board.

Quote:

Supervising co-teacher (aka "handler")
Department head
Vice-principal
Principal
School inspector at district Office of Education
Supervisor of GETs at the POE

That should be as far as you should need to go to get satisfaction. If that still doesn't work, then you hit up these two folks:

Deputy Superintendent of Education for the province/metropolitan city
Superintendent of Education for the province/metropolitan city

You are awesome. Thank you!

Fishead soup

Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject:

isitts wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

isitts wrote:

At any rate, I don't want to argue again with the principal and VP that I get 20 days + two weeks vacation.

You have a contract for a reason. Jackass bosses are the reason.

Quote:

When I told the VP about the vacation time, she said, "That's too much."

If you'd asked her what her salary was and then told her that's too much, do you seriously think she'd waive any of her salary?

Quote:

I had to teach 4 weeks of winter camp last January and only got to take a trip home in February because my ticket was non-refundable. GEPIK office wasn't all that helpful.

Huh? You waived your vacation? Did you happen to get compensated for lost vacation?

Who at GEPIK did you talk to? Whoever it was might've soiled themselves had you brought up the Labor Board.

Quote:

Supervising co-teacher (aka "handler")
Department head
Vice-principal
Principal
School inspector at district Office of Education
Supervisor of GETs at the POE

That should be as far as you should need to go to get satisfaction. If that still doesn't work, then you hit up these two folks:

Deputy Superintendent of Education for the province/metropolitan city
Superintendent of Education for the province/metropolitan city

You are awesome. Thank you!

In Korea contacts are everything. If you've helped people in the past they will go to bat for you. I once worked at a high school. I never insisted my Co-teacher assisted me in the classroom. I was able to use this contact later in sticky situations. It's surprising how many of the teachers I use to work with are now in the POE. They will usually help you but it's a card you have to use wisely and don't squander it. It sounds like the OP had a good relationship with the previous Principal this is a card he can play and quite possibly everything will fall into place quite nice.

isitts

Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:28 am Post subject:

[quote="CentralCali"]

isitts wrote:

Quote:

I had to teach 4 weeks of winter camp last January and only got to take a trip home in February because my ticket was non-refundable. GEPIK office wasn't all that helpful.

Huh? You waived your vacation? Did you happen to get compensated for lost vacation?

Who at GEPIK did you talk to? Whoever it was might've soiled themselves had you brought up the Labor Board.

Just so I don't leave your questions unanswered, no I did not waive my vacation. They attempted to violate the terms, primarily in February. I had a week before (end of December) and a week after (end of January/First week of February) the camp for vacation. Worthless for trying to make a trip home.

I can understand muscling for paid holiday at a hagwon, but at a public school where there are plenty of days to throw around, it was asinine not to get two consecutive weeks off.

But maybe those are the brakes working at a Korean public school. That's fine. I wasn't intending on starting this thread to be a labor issue. Just saying I don't want to have to fight (in a public school) just to get two weeks off.

February (during the spring break) was the near violation when I had gotten signatures from the head teacher and VP approving 8 days paid holiday. Got them mid-January. Principal said he would sign but as I was asking early, he wanted to wait until beginning of February to sign. So I bought my ticket home.

Then later he decides he won't sign because I'd be missing the meeting before the new school year. That he thought he could do this astonished me. My "handler" was worthless, so I went directly to the VP (who speaks English) and had it out with her. Had a meeting with the principal, VP, and handler and let them know that they were compelled to give me this time off as it was the last chance to use my paid vacation before my contract ended.

But they only granted it because ticket was non-refundable and couldn't be cancelled. (Though, I told them I'd be taking the vacation even if it ended up being a one-way trip.)

So, no, I did not waive my vacation, but who wants to do this every time holiday season comes around?

Oh, and when I called the GEPIK district coordinator about this after my trip... (yes, she told me to call at the time of the problem. I know)... but anyway, she said, "Well, they don't like you waiving the contract in their faces."

I really didn't know what to say to that.

Anyway, I don't want to keep pulling on this thread. I think I have enough info to work with here.

Although, I'm not sure anyone confirmed or denied that I need a letter from the school confirming my time at the school and recommending me to a subsequent school. Was that just some crap the recruiter made up when I first applied to teach here? Would documentation from the POE work.

Sorry, it's just the GEPIK coordinators don't tell you much.

Thanks, again, everyone, for your comments.

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject:

Usually, I just ignore posts encouraging toadying; however, this time the post just got under my skin, so to speak.

Fishead soup wrote:

In Korea contacts are everything. If you've helped people in the past they will go to bat for you.

No. No, they are not everything. If someone has newly arrived, then they obviously don't have any "contacts" here. They are not abandoned to the whims of the co-teacher or principal, at least not in the public school system, because of that.

Quote:

I once worked at a high school.

Well, bully for you.

Quote:

I never insisted my Co-teacher assisted me in the classroom.

For many (perhaps even most) of us, it's not a matter of insisting the co-teacher be in the room. It's a matter of POE/school policy that there be a Korean teacher in the room with the GET.

Quote:

I was able to use this contact later in sticky situations.

Again, bully for you. And how does "using a contact later in sticky situations" help someone who finds himself in a "sticky situation" immediately?

Quote:

It's surprising how many of the teachers I use to work with are now in the POE. They will usually help you but it's a card you have to use wisely and don't squander it.

How about people doing their job? I know that's a novel concept in some parts, even outside of Korea, but someone whose job is to mediate conflicts shouldn't be basing their decision on who's a previous "contact" and who's not.

Quote:

It sounds like the OP had a good relationship with the previous Principal this is a card he can play and quite possibly everything will fall into place quite nice.

The previous principal has nothing to do with the current situation as described by the OP. Actually, the previous principal has nothing to do with anything at all at the OP's school. The previous principal has moved on and his area of responsibility--and authority--no longer is the OP's school.

On the other hand, there is a system, which has been in place for quite some time, to resolve disputes/conflicts/etc. And, interestingly enough, that system's been in place for the use of the Korean teachers (of any subject). I've seen both Korean teachers and foreign teachers use the system. One Korean teacher I saw use this system did not tank her career. She moved onto a position as vice-principal.

No, contacts are not everything here.

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