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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
Israel has a strong economy. Americas on the other hand is foundering.
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America should then behave like Israel and steal, eh.
http://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2011/03/27/neoconomics%C2%A0conscription-and-war-as-wealth/
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In 2010 Israel�s second largest export (at $5.3 billion) to the US after gem diamonds, cut stones, and other baubles ($7.7 billion) was pharmaceuticals. US drug makers have been long incensed over Israeli theft of patent medicine clinical dossiers submitted as a requirement to enter Israel�s market. The Ministry of Health passed them on for use in "at risk" Israeli manufactured generic drug launches in the US and Israeli copycat drugs made for export to world markets. Buttressed by an army of lawyers, Israeli generics producers can capture �80% of [US] innovators market�through patent challenges� according to industry analysts. Israel, for years placed on a punitive US Trade Representative "Special 301 Watch List" for patent violations is since 2010 on probation (PDF), promising to pass laws in sync with developed country intellectual property norms and to stop undermining US industry innovations.
However, Start-up Nation airbrushes one vital and enduring truth � when Israel faces sovereign barriers to foreign trade routes, weapons, or technology; it tends to break other country�s laws and steal what it thinks it needs. Ever sensitive to Israel�s righteousness, members of the massive Haganah arms theft and smuggling ring in the US in the book were merely David Ben-Gurion�s �emissaries� to America, not felons violating US arms export laws. Theft of French Mirage jetfighter plans stolen to build the Israeli Kfir were justified to correct Charles de Gaulle�s arms embargo, a �betrayal by a close ally.� Al Schwimmer, a felon convicted for violating US arms export controls that went on to become a player in the Iran-Contra scandal, is a �swashbuckler� in Start-up Nation. |
Diamonds, guns and drugs (that they didn't develop). Sounds about right. The above is a review of a book written by two Israel-firsters who want America to have conscription so as to push forward the creative economy, or something. The mind strains to find sense in this behavior. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Yawn...that is a loopy 9-11 conspiracy, libelous, anti-semitic hate-site.
Whats next... stormfront?
All that racial hatred must really wear you out.
Why not give yourself a break..and check out the latest survey from Freedom House.Recently published: their 2011 map of north Africa and the middle east. As usual... tiny Israel is the only free and democratic country in the region.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/images/File/fiw/FIW2011_MENA_Map_1st%20draft.pdf |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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It is, in the words of a State Department cable:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3992938,00.html
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Americans concerned by growing organized crime in Israel in past few years: In a cable sent from the US Embassy in Tel Aviv to the State Department in Washington and the FBI, American Ambassador James Cunningham showed impressive knowledge in the Israeli crime world and expressed his concern over its impact in the United States.
In a document from May 2009 titled "Israel a promised land for organized crime?" Cunningham wrote that "Organized crime (OC) has longstanding roots in Israel, but in recent years there has been a sharp increase in the reach and impact of OC networks." |
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| Yawn...that is a loopy 9-11 conspiracy, libelous, anti-semitic hate-site. |
It is run by Jews and tends to censor 9/11 stuff. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Shifting away from Junior's grovelling at the feet of the people his ancestors pilfered their God from, Israel's parliament just passed a law revoking citizenship for those found guilty of certain crimes.
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JERUSALEM � Israel's Knesset, or parliament, has passed a law which would enable the court system to revoke the citizenship of anyone convicted of spying, treason or helping the enemy during times of war.
The bill, which was passed by 37 to 11 at a late-night session on Monday, was initiated by two Knesset members (MKs) from the ultra-nationalist Yisrael Beitenu party of Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman.
The new legislation empowers the Israeli court system to revoke the citizenship of anyone convicted on charges of "terrorism," espionage, helping the enemy during time of war or any other act which harms national sovereignty.
"Without loyalty, there can be no citizenship," Lieberman said just minutes after the bill was passed, in comments reported by the Jerusalem Post. "Any person who harms the country cannot enjoy the benefits of citizenship and its fruit."
The law is part of Lieberman's "no loyalty, no citizenship" campaign which he pushed during the run up to the 2009 elections, which is widely understood to target Israel's Arab minority.
Arab Israeli MPs blasted as "racist" the new law which they said was aimed solely at the country's Arab minority, in a stance backed by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI).
"MKs have made it clear that even though the wording of the bill is broad, it is very clearly aimed at Israel's Arab citizens, and sends them a message that their citizenship is not guaranteed," ACRI spokeswoman Ronit Sela told AFP.
In passing the bill, the parliament was sending "a very severe" message to the Arab community which makes up around a fifth of Israel's citizens, she said.
"The vote in support of this bill shows that the Knesset has lost sight of a very important principle: that citizenship is not a prize that is given or taken away, it is a person's protected right," she said.
Although a similar procedure for revoking citizenship already exists under the 1952 Nationality Law, it could only be done through the interior ministry.
"Before, it was a separate process handled by the interior ministry, but now, if the court has convicted someone, they can revoke citizenship at the same time as handing down sentence," she said.
The move will also affect those with residency status, such as Palestinian residents of east Jerusalem, she said.
At the same time, MPs also backed, by 29 in favour to 8 against, a move to revoke the pension of Azmi Bishara, a former Arab Israeli MP who fled the country four years ago after being accused of helping Lebanon's Hezbollah militia.
Bishara left Israel in April 2007 following allegations he advised Hezbollah and directed its rocket fire against Israel during the Second Lebanon War in 2006. He has repeatedly denied the claims.
Israel's 1.3 million Arab citizens, who make up 20 percent of the population, are Palestinians who remained in the country following the creation of the Jewish state in 1948, along with their descendants. |
The people who are only thinking about this in terms of anti-Arab racism are, if anything, underestimating the problem in their thoughtless, knee-jerk rush to demonize Israel as racist. Jewish Israelis who try to stand up to their government are just as at risk here if the law is interpretted as broadly as it would have to be for it to pose a serious risk to Arab citizens. This law isn't just bad for Arab-Israelis, it's bad for all Israeli citizens. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Jewish Israelis who try to stand up to their government are just as at risk here if the law is interpretted as broadly as it would have to be for it to pose a serious risk to Arab citizens. |
Do you figure it actually will be?
In any event, it sounds pretty hard-core. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Jewish Israelis who try to stand up to their government are just as at risk here if the law is interpretted as broadly as it would have to be for it to pose a serious risk to Arab citizens. |
Do you figure it actually will be? |
No, I think very few people -- Arab or Jewish -- will lose their citizenship as a result of this law. The problem with the law (and it's real purpose, I imagine) is the fear it creates through the potential for such application. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| YES! |
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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YES! Unconditionally supporting a nation which continues to build racial colonies on illegally-occupied land is not doing anything good for the US's reputation. It is actually makes the US more hated around the world. Israel protects these illegal settlers, many of whom are complete zionist extremists who believe that 'God' gave them the land. Last time I checked God is not a real-estate agent and 'God gave me the land' has does not usually stand up in a court of law. Of course the law doesn't matter to Israel here. Israel bombs Gaza continually killing civilians and Palestinians live in poverty. Innocent civilians go through military checkpoints all the time and treated like suspected terrorists. For many Palestinians, life is like hell on earth by any of our standards in the west. However, there won't be any change as long as Jewish and Christian zionists continue to play such a large role in influencing US policy in the middle-east. Remember that Israel is a pretty affluent nation and the US continues to give them billions in military and economic aid whilst there is 20% unemployment in much of the US.
I suggest you watch these documentaries:
Occupation 101: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWpOqAitZLs
AIPAC: The Israel Lobby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98 |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Eddy24 wrote: |
| Last time I checked God is not a real-estate agent |
Maybe you better check again.
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Genesis 15: 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates.
Genesis 35:10-12 God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel. And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body. The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you, and I will give this land to your descendants after you."
Deuteronomy 34: 4 "This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, 'I will give it to your offspring'"
Genesis 12: 3 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
Ezekiel 37: 21 Then say to them that Adonai Elohim says: 'I will take the people of Isra'el from among the nations where they have gone and gather them from every side and bring them back to their own land. |
| Eddy24 wrote: |
| For many Palestinians, life is like hell on earth by any of our standards in the west. |
Actually Gaza is growing in prosperity thanks to Israeli aid.
Although I agree that some Palestinians (mostly women) live in misery due to the misrule of Hamas... as well as because of the oppression of hard core Shariah law.
Of course things could be worse- they might actually live in an arab state. That is if Israel hadn't granted them permission to stay in 1948. "Life is so hard for them" that their numbers have mushroomed since the establishment of Israel. |
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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oh my god, I can't believe how wrong and irrelevant everything you just wrote is.
God is not a real-state agent because he is a fictional character. Gaza is not growing in prosperity because of Israeli aid. Israel bombs Gaza, killing civilians all the time. The fact they are reproducing does not mean that their life is good.
Palestinians live under an illegal military occupation. Why don't you go Palestine and see how you like it. Try educating yourself at least and watch Occupation 101. Learn a little about what life in Palestine is actually like then come back and tell me they are doing ok. Hamas are bad yes, but to put the blame all on them for the Palestinians' suffering is utterly ridiclous and completely ignorant of Israel's crimes.
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| f course things could be worse- they might actually live in an arab state. That is if Israel hadn't granted them permission to stay in 1948. |
Oh my god. Oh wonderful Israel for not kicking people out of their own land. Except that is exactly what they did. Do you know what the nakba is? You live in bizarro world.
and besides, God did not set free the Hebrew slaves, Cyrus the Great did, a Persian King. That's according to actual History as well as part of the Bible itself. But if one needs to get into it, "Israel" is not land it is the name given to Jacob, and it designates a person's bloodline, a race, not dirt. By the way Jacob's brother Esau or Edon was in the land first before the children of Israel. Jacob moved to Palestine his father was not from there. And the story goes on about the Joseph and the tunic of many colors, his jealous brothers, etc reading just like a Mother Goose story in its ridiculousness. Joseph is raised in Egypt he later gets revenge on his brothers who lived in Palestine. None of this is historical by the way it's all biblical fiction. The point is, in neither record is god creating the "state" of Israel for Jewish people. Israel was a man and only one of his twelve sons gets favor with god, and he lived in Egypt, as the story goes god's chosen people are chosen to spread the word of god, he does not grant them land, they steal it by force in military conquest except for when they lose, in those cases they chalk it up to not being faithful enough and god punishing them. However if they win then that is god rewarding them. Undoubtedly however the land is already occupied by the non-chosen which is who they are fighting with. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Junior.
Genesis 15: 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates.
�Do not say, we are sons of Abraham, for I say to you that God is able from these stones to raise up sons to Abraham.�
�If you be Christ�s, then you are the seed of Abraham.�
The old covenant is over. Racial Hebrews (who no longer exist, anyway) are not the chosen people. Neither are Jews, and manifestly so: they reject Christ. Abraham�s seed is spiritual.
Once you understand this, your other confusions will begin to evaporate, and OT passages will become far richer to you. Their historical meaning is often only the least of their many symbolic shades. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
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Genesis 15: 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates.
Genesis 35:10-12 God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel. And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body. The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you, and I will give this land to your descendants after you."
Deuteronomy 34: 4 "This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, 'I will give it to your offspring'"
Genesis 12: 3 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
Ezekiel 37: 21 Then say to them that Adonai Elohim says: 'I will take the people of Isra'el from among the nations where they have gone and gather them from every side and bring them back to their own land. |
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man you have to be kidding. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Just ignore him. He's a total nut on the subject, not worth engaging whatsoever. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Eddy24 wrote: |
| Gaza is not growing in prosperity |
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| With Hamas telling tales of deprivation and suffering in Gaza, Egyptian journalist Ashraf Abu al-Houl has added his report to others who were surprised to discover a �prosperous� Gaza in which prices are low and luxury businesses are booming. |
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138860
Facts Beyond the Spin: Israel Delivers Massive Aid to Gaza
June 2, 2010
http://www.cicweb.ca/scene/2010/06/israel_aid_to_gaza/
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| Palestinians live under an illegal military occupation. |
The Israeli occupation is not illegal. UN 242 calls for land for peace. Hamas doesn't offer Israel peace. Please get your facts straight.
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| Do you know what the nakba is? |
The nakba is when Israels enemies launched a war to kill or expel all jews in the area.
During the 1940's, there was a long line of slaughters, of pogroms, of property confiscation and of deportations against Jews in Islamic countries. This chapter of history has been left in the shadows. The Jewish Nakba was worse than the Palestinian Nakba. The only difference is that the Jews did not turn that Nakba into their founding ethos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries
What was called a catastrophe in 1948 was largely self-inflicted by the Palestinians supported and encouraged by the Arab world. There would have been no war had the Palestinians accepted the UN two-state solution of 1947. There would have been no refugee problem had the resolution been accepted. Indeed, there would have been a much larger Arab minority within Israel. The real catastrophe is not what they blame the Jews and the world for, but rather the decision and leadership of the Arabs. And, as noted, those self-destructive errors first made in 1947-8 have been repeated ad infinitum ever since, causing pain to Israel, but far greater pain and suffering to the Palestinians.
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Israel/20070827-Oped.htm
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| Israel bombs Gaza, killing civilians all the time. |
Actually it is Gaza that constantly sends rockets into Israeli residential areas to kill Israelis. mainstream media chooses to not report it however.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2011
Given such weighted media bias against Israel, it really is no surprise that a generation of young westerners has grown up indoctrinated into anti-israeli hatred. Muslims bought up a lot of the western media years ago.
Arabs freely live in Israel and enjoy the benefits. But why are there few, or no Jews living in Arab lands?
Case in point: in 1931, there were 21000 Jews living in Libya. Today there are none.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Libya
Why does racism by Arab nations not really bother you?
Sorry to break it to you...but there is no such thing. Let me quote Zuheir Mohsen, former leader of the PLO faction 1971-79:
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"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
While this contravened the PLO charter, which affirms the existence of a Palestinian people with national rights, it was in line with al-Sa'iqa's Syrian-Baathist ideology. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen |
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