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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, Kimbop, 500,000 activists didn't riot. 500,000 turned up at the demonstration, a few hundred rioted.
Please, don't let facts ever stand in your way. |
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oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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The NHS (a communist relic imposed on the British taxpayers during WWII) should be dismantled and all money refunded to the taxpayers. NHS is a scam posing as "free" healthcare. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
The welfare state was created after the war you idiot. It was created by the Labour Party: Bevan and Atlee to be exact. It was designed for 'the craddle to the grave in times of scikness and hardship'.
Thatcher created the dependency culture that was part of her economic plan to have 6 million people sitting idle. That's why we are now into second generation families who have never done a days work in their life.
The founding principles of the welfare state worked and would have worked if we had not had had a right-wing fascist in power by the name of Margaret Thatcher, whose good friend was no other than General Pinochet.
Unless you came from a wealthy family, you didn't get an education. So, unless you come from a wealthy family, and no I'm not talking about the new middle class that emerged in the 1960's you would not have had an education. Education was elitist, shall we return back to that!!
Your ignorance shows your complete utter stupidity!! |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| oldtrafford wrote: |
| Your ignorance shows your complete utter stupidity!! |
We use indoor voices here. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| oldtrafford wrote: |
The NHS (a communist relic imposed on the British taxpayers during WWII) should be dismantled and all money refunded to the taxpayers. NHS is a scam posing as "free" healthcare. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
The welfare state was created after the war you idiot. It was created by the Labour Party: Bevan and Atlee to be exact. It was designed for 'the craddle to the grave in times of scikness and hardship'. |
From wikipedia: "The government accepted this assumption in February 1943, and after a White Paper in 1944 it fell to Clement Attlee's Labour government to create the NHS as part of the "cradle to grave" welfare-state reforms."
Legislation was begun during WWII, as a direct result of the wartime conditions (during a time when command and control socialism was revered in Britain, and even the genocidal mass-murderer Stalin was generally considered a man of great virtue). I knew about this and I'm not even British. Who's the idiot now?
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| Thatcher created the dependency culture that was part of her economic plan to have 6 million people sitting idle. That's why we are now into second generation families who have never done a days work in their life. |
British socialism goes back much further than Thatcher. In fact, despite being a statist (whom I'm no big fan of), Thatcher actually did much to reverse the socialist lunacy of that time.
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| The founding principles of the welfare state worked and would have worked if we had not had had a right-wing fascist in power by the name of Margaret Thatcher, whose good friend was no other than General Pinochet. |
Complete nonsense. Not that I'm here to defend Thatcher, but Britain was already bankrupt and an economic joke by the 70's (the "sick man of Europe").
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| Unless you came from a wealthy family, you didn't get an education. So, unless you come from a wealthy family, and no I'm not talking about the new middle class that emerged in the 1960's you would not have had an education. Education was elitist, shall we return back to that!! |
1) Newsflash: you're not special and nobody owes you anything.
2) Britain is still totally elitist. You still have a monarchy for starters (with your vile queen and her progeny prancing around with all their palaces and obscene luxury; the royal family owns half the country). British Rothschild banks are also the original globalist financial institutions (the BoE being run under royal charter) and funded the British empire from the very start. They also funded global socialism from day one. The whole system is elitist and corrupt from top to bottom (just as in the US). There are a lot of smart enterprising people in the UK; unfortunately it is also the original evil empire. Much of your past wealth (which funded your ridiculous welfare state) has come from imperialism, whether military or economic, or a combination of the two.
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| Your ignorance shows your complete utter stupidity!! |
Right back at you. Your sort of ignorance is so obviously the product of socialist education. Your whole world view is just a big lie. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| oldtrafford wrote: |
"The NHS (a communist relic imposed on the British taxpayers during WWII) should be dismantled and all money refunded to the taxpayers. NHS is a scam posing as "free" healthcare. There is no such thing as a free lunch."
The welfare state was created after the war you idiot. It was created by the Labour Party: Bevan and Atlee to be exact. It was designed for 'the craddle to the grave in times of scikness and hardship'. |
From wikipedia: "The government accepted this assumption in February 1943, and after a White Paper in 1944 it fell to Clement Attlee's Labour government to create the NHS as part of the "cradle to grave" welfare-state reforms."
Legislation was begun during WWII, as a direct result of the wartime conditions (during a time when command and control socialism was revered in Britain, and even the genocidal mass-murderer Stalin was generally considered a man of great virtue). I knew about this and I'm not even British. Who's the idiot now?
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So the NHS was a Conservative relic?
If people don't like how public sector workers get paid why don't they become rich and stop paying taxes, like Vodaphone. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Good grief. It's like watching brontosaurii fight. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| oldtrafford wrote: |
"The NHS (a communist relic imposed on the British taxpayers during WWII) should be dismantled and all money refunded to the taxpayers. NHS is a scam posing as "free" healthcare. There is no such thing as a free lunch."
The welfare state was created after the war you idiot. It was created by the Labour Party: Bevan and Atlee to be exact. It was designed for 'the craddle to the grave in times of scikness and hardship'. |
From wikipedia: "The government accepted this assumption in February 1943, and after a White Paper in 1944 it fell to Clement Attlee's Labour government to create the NHS as part of the "cradle to grave" welfare-state reforms."
Legislation was begun during WWII, as a direct result of the wartime conditions (during a time when command and control socialism was revered in Britain, and even the genocidal mass-murderer Stalin was generally considered a man of great virtue). I knew about this and I'm not even British. Who's the idiot now?
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So the NHS was a Conservative relic? |
Actually yes, in a way. The white paper which introduced the legislation was written by Sir Henry Willink, the Conservative party's Minister of Health during the war (1943-45). However, just as the American 2-party system is a sham (two heads of the exact same beast), the political system in Britain has always been dominated by the same elite interests. Whether Conservative or Labour, it makes no practical difference. The socialist welfare state was to be imposed either way.
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| If people don't like how public sector workers get paid why don't they become rich and stop paying taxes, like Vodaphone. |
Right. So ruinous government spending is the problem, and your solution is to pander to the government in order to become rich? Or were you not aware that in 21st century fascist-socialist Britain (as in the US) only those who play ball with evil and have the proper political connections can hope to rise to such heights?
No. The solution is getting the government out of everybody's business and giving the economy back to free market enterprise (not corporatocracy, mind you). Redundant civil servants should be re-employed in the private sector and be paid according to merit. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Right. So ruinous government spending is the problem, and your solution is to pander to the government in order to become rich? Or were you not aware that in 21st century fascist-socialist Britain (as in the US) only those who play ball with evil and have the proper political connections can hope to rise to such heights?
No. The solution is getting the government out of everybody's business and giving the economy back to free market enterprise (not corporatocracy, mind you). Redundant civil servants should be re-employed in the private sector and be paid according to merit. |
Ruinous spending evil fascist-socialist Britain? Frak them, Glen Beck should drop the bomb over London.
The Free Market Enterprise-Its five year mission to boldly bankrupt as many states as possible. Live long and prosper on that one. They can't even collect the bins without going bust and driving up the council tax. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Right. So ruinous government spending is the problem, and your solution is to pander to the government in order to become rich? Or were you not aware that in 21st century fascist-socialist Britain (as in the US) only those who play ball with evil and have the proper political connections can hope to rise to such heights?
No. The solution is getting the government out of everybody's business and giving the economy back to free market enterprise (not corporatocracy, mind you). Redundant civil servants should be re-employed in the private sector and be paid according to merit. |
Ruinous spending evil fascist-socialist Britain? Frak them, Glen Beck should drop the bomb over London. |
Ooh, mockery. That's pretty clever-- it's almost as if you undermined my whole argument, just by being witty. What will you liberal-types think of next? 
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| The Free Market Enterprise-Its five year mission to boldly bankrupt as many states as possible. Live long and prosper on that one. They can't even collect the bins without going bust and driving up the council tax. |
Pff. Since when has garbage collection in the UK been open to free market enterprise and deregulated to allow competition? The mayor probably let his spoiled cretin of a nephew set up a shell company to take over the existing shoddy infrastructure ("privatization") in a no-bid government contract and let him run it further into the ground before finally bailing him out with even more tax money (instead of letting him go bankrupt as he deserved). Nothing says "free market" like cronyism and spending other peoples' money without any real liability.
As for bankrupting nations, you've got it ass backwards on that one. All the real wealth is generated in the private sector. All the government does is collect taxes and spend other peoples' money. Civil servants also pay zero net taxes, since all their income is derived from tax revenue to begin with. Just one giant bloated tick sucking the life blood from its host. |
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oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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You're a complete idiot who writes utter drivel. The Conservatives would have not created the welfare state. They have tried in the past and are trying now to disband it, that's a fact!
And you talk about the welfare system been a waste of money, then what in the hell do you call our military expenditure. If you're American same same.
Oh, and enlighten me on the liars and thieves who have played the financial markets and been allowed to bankrupt countries, but still continue to get bail outs!!
Yes, social medicine is evil, well I'm glad I come from a country where healthcare is available whether you're working or not. Pity it's not the same for those Americans who have died because they were screwed over by insurance companies or were denied cover or just couldn't afford it!! Try telling that to those who have lost loved ones. What you going to do now start spouting Darwins theories you dam fool!! |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| oldtrafford wrote: |
| You're a complete idiot who writes utter drivel. |
Just because you're not smart enough to engage in proper debate doesn't mean you get to resort to insults. If that's all you're capable of then perhaps you should just give it up (you're no good at it anyway) before the mods come down on you. Just some friendly advice.
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| The Conservatives would have not created the welfare state. They have tried in the past and are trying now to disband it, that's a fact! |
No, it's not a fact- it's just your bogus and incredibly naive understanding of history. The welfare state in Britain existed as early as the 1930's. The Fabian socialists had been around even longer (since the 1880's) and were in the highest corridors of power from the beginning. As I showed, even the legislation for the socialist NHS was written by the Conservative Minister of Health. That is a fact.
Socialism is all about destroying the fabric of society (either incrementally as in the West, or all at once in the case of Communist countries), undermining the family, making people dependent on the government so they can be dumbed down, divided, impoverished, and more easily manipulated. Socialism benefits the elite who fund it more than anyone, which is why it's the agenda of every administration to some extent or other.
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| And you talk about the welfare system been a waste of money, then what in the hell do you call our military expenditure. If you're American same same. |
I call the military expenditure a complete waste of money. Not sure what you're blabbering about anyway (did you think I was pro-military or something?)
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| Oh, and enlighten me on the liars and thieves who have played the financial markets and been allowed to bankrupt countries, but still continue to get bail outs!! |
This is socialism at its finest. In a free market the cartel of mega banks that rule over our society would have never existed in the first place (central banking is what enables this cartel, and is one of the main planks of communism and requires a strong central government to exist). In a free market system banks would be liable for their actions, forced to account properly for risky investments, and any bank that went under would be allowed to do so. This is a clear cut example of why socialism is so evil. You think it's only about the government giving you some free goodies, but you fail to see that the same government is actively working for the mega banks who control the monetary system through government sanctioned monopoly and hold our entire societies hostage. But I wouldn't expect someone like yourself to understand how central banking works, or to even understand what money is at the most fundamental level...
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| Yes, social medicine is evil, well I'm glad I come from a country where healthcare is available whether you're working or not. Pity it's not the same for those Americans who have died because they were screwed over by insurance companies or were denied cover or just couldn't afford it!! Try telling that to those who have lost loved ones. What you going to do now start spouting Darwins theories you dam fool!! |
Enough with the Michael Moore schtick already... You live in one of the most corrupt, ruinously expensive countries in the world, the one with the highest private debt on earth (400% of GDP). Given the level of technology and infrastructure in the UK, the standard of living for the average person should be fit for a king; but you're not smart enough to put two and two together and understand that there's no such thing as a free lunch, and your so-called "free" health care (laugh out loud) is in no way free whatsoever. As with any other government entitlement it is very expensive and you get less for what you pay for. And you most certainly do pay, through taxation, and you also pay through inflation (which steals your purchasing power as a hidden tax).
As for America, we have the best health care in the world by far in terms of technology and service; however government regulation has given the insurance companies (owned by the same mega banks who control the corrupt central government) a monopoly. This is why Americans get shafted. In a free market, totally deregulated health care system (which we don't have), insurance companies would become redundant and competition would drive prices down to the level where supply would meet demand and everyone could readily afford health care out of pocket (with private charity making up the difference for those few who would need it and qualify). Not all health care would be equal, but it would still be better and much cheaper than the care provided under NHS. It's that simple. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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^
Not simple at all.
You're very fond of unprovable counterfactuals. Makes your job of unfounded argumentation quite easy. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
^
Not simple at all.
You're very fond of unprovable counterfactuals. Makes your job of unfounded argumentation quite easy. |
And you're very fond of entering threads without contributing anything to the discussion.
There is no reason why deregulated health care wouldn't be affordable for all. People used to be able to pay out of pocket; however the technology today is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was then. The latest technology will always be more expensive (and usually is too expensive for socialist health care in countries outside the US), but the basic needed to save lives has already been around for decades and is very cheap. By this I'm referring to medical equipment and medicine. As for doctors, the field should be totally deregulated to allow lower entry requirements, increase competition, and drive prices for service down. Private certification from reputable organizations and reputation is sufficient (buyer beware). Gross malpractice would still be covered under criminal law, but most people don't need a brain surgeon with 8 years training to get a physical or buy some antibiotics (which are literally as cheap as dirt).
Last edited by visitorq on Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| The welfare state in Britain existed as early as the 1930's. |
Try 20 years earlier than that. |
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oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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'Enough with the Michael Moore schtick already..'
Why aren't we the rude one, perhaps I should get the mods to 'come down on you'. Just some friendly advice!
Michael Moore highlighted reality regarding the wonderful healthcare system you have in place in the states. The fact of the matter is that whether you're working or not you get FREE health care. If the RICHEST country (though not for long, my friend) in the world can't afford those basic RIGHTS, then what the hell does that make the USA. I'll tell you BUDDY, a laughing stock to those countries that have it. It's real simple.
I've been in Korea for a number of years, and I know if I got ill, I could/would fly back home to one of the 'ruinously expensive countries in the world, the one with the highest private debt on earth (400% of GDP) and head stright to a hospital, and it wouldn't cost me a penny!!!
'As for America, we have the best health care in the world by far in terms of technology and service;'
Yes, for the privelged few!! What about the millions of Americans who can't access your utopia health care system!!
So, it's the socialits who are to blame for the economic melt down. Yes, Scargill and Kinnock have been too busy playing the markets. Oh, let me not forget Michael Moore, it's his fault too!! Socialists have nothing to do with owning the banks and the financial markets!
Oh, and don't pass judgement on my smartness. Who the hell do you think you are!! Oh yes, a nobody, but somebody whose got issues against the U.K. (must be the FREE health care) and SOCIALISTS!!
'The latest technology will always be more expensive (and usually is too expensive for socialist health care in countries outside the US)... '
Try telling my mother who was saved from dying from cancer, that our health care system didn't have the necessary technology to treat her. She would laugh in your face, and ask if you were on meds!
Oh, and it didn't cost her a penny!! Sure, she paid N.I.C. over the years, paid her taxes, big deal!! Who the hell are you to say our health care is primitive. Is this your opinion, do you have facts!! At least she wasn't left untreated, unlike those who have died and still continue to die in your utopia health care system. Yes, a very humane society indeed!
Out of interest have you ever set foot in a hospital in the U.K. Is your opinion based on the red necks over at Fox news who helped smooth the passage to power of that other socialist George W. Bush!! |
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