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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| legrande wrote: |
| You still haven't said anything to substantiate your claim that these events weren't a basic focus of attention for all involved parties, and that concern for the issues surrounding these events didn't cause war to break out on the peninsula. |
You are confused. YOU are making the claim and YOU need to back it up. That's how it works.
From ALL that you've written, I still don't see any evidence that "the South's unrest" was the PRIMARY factor in the North's invasion. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| legrande wrote: |
| You still haven't said anything to substantiate your claim that these events weren't a basic focus of attention for all involved parties, and that concern for the issues surrounding these events didn't cause war to break out on the peninsula. |
You are confused. YOU are making the claim and YOU need to back it up. That's how it works.
From ALL that you've written, I still don't see any evidence that "the South's unrest" was the PRIMARY factor in the North's invasion. |
Well, sorry it can't all be put into a test tube, shaken up by a centrifuge, and processed so that when the contents are seperated out, "Here is the primary cause of war" is spelt out in the top layer of data for easy reading...Yeah, citizens being oppressed by foreign-backed elite bent on retaining power and privilege, leading to massive protests and demonstrations, which are then brutally put down, leading to armed conflicts across a demarcated border, doesn't strike you as being a primary factor in causing a full-scale war to break out (and MacArthur's biographer is on record as saying MacArthur was told it was the South who initially made incursions into the North; who invaded who is a mute point as they had already been engaging in border skirmishes)...still waiting on you to come up with anything more plausible. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have any documentation from the period detailing Kim Il Sung's actual thoughts and motivations? From what I can gather, your premise is based on assumption...I haven't seen you actually say "here's a released batch of documents that were smuggled out of the DPRK showing that Kim was actively concerned with people's lives in the South.
Seriously, you just keep going on with your asinine examples of posters being fed to a dog or of evidence being fed into a test tube. Or better yet, you write about a "mute point".... Mind explaining to all of us uneducated posters on here what exactly that is??
Again, I say your theory is interesting, but you have not shown one shred of evidence that directly ties A to B. You need to learn the difference between correlation and causation. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Kim Il-Sung was a fraud. He did not liberate the North from the Japanese. The Soviets did and then installed him into power.
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Grigory Mekler was a Soviet 'spin doctor' ordered to help North Korea's now-demised leader Kim il Sung climb to power in 1945.
Now a 90-year-old pensioner, Mekler said in an interview that he had spent a year touring North Korea with Kim Il Sung, gleaning the leader mass popularity.
In April 1945 army chiefs in the Russian Far East were ordered to find a suitable leader for a new Korean state, and Mekler, a propaganda expert, was one of those entrusted with the task.
"Imagine what a responsibility it was. Basically the future of an entire nation was at stake," said Mekler.
Marshal Meretskov, Commander of the Far East Front, asked Mekler whether he had heard of a man called Kim Il Sung.
In fact Mekler had met Kim Il Sung in 1944, when the Korean was training at a Soviet army camp for Chinese and Korean guerillas near Khabarovsk in the Russian Far East. The Soviet officer found out that Kim, who then commanded a Korean battalion, had borrowed his name from the previous commander. Kim's predecessor, highly respected by Korean guerrillas, was killed in action.
"I want you to work on this person," said Meretskov, referring to Kim. "At the moment not many people know him. Travel to every corner of North Korea with him. It will be useful for both of you."
Kim Il Sung, who gained the rank of major in the Soviet army, returned to Korea in 1945 with the occupying forces, and Mekler and other Soviet advisers spent a year touring with him, even helping to write his speeches.
"When he was taking his first steps towards power, he didn't do anything without taking our advice," recollected the Soviet colonel.
Initially Kim Il Sung experienced some setbacks. "Sometimes after his speeches at demonstrations there was silence," said Mekler. "But later people started clapping."
Stalin approved of the choice of Kim Il Sung, believes Mekler, and the Korean was "sincerely in love with Stalin."
Kim Il Sung was invited to Moscow and was taken to a shop for distinguished guests, where they could take any item for free, even a motor car.
Asked what he chose, Kim Il Sung answered, "A car for Kim Jong Il (his son)," and showed Mekler a small toy truck.
The Korean leader declared that, "North Korea and the USSR are brothers for all time. Stalin and I forever," recalled Mekler.
Mekler also met the current North Korean leader Kim Jong Il as a three-year-old child, and keeps photographs of himself with Kim Il Sung's family.
Before Mekler returned to Moscow, Kim Il Sung asked for a final word of advice. "I answered with the famous English phrase 'Look before you leap'," recalled the Russian.
Korea was a Japanese colony from 1910 until 1945, when the USSR and the United States occupied the north and south of the peninsula. Neither superpower was prepared to withdraw and give way to an independent Korea, and in 1948 two separate states, the Republic of Korea and the People's Democratic Republic of Korea, were formed.
Kim Il Sung created the North Korean Communist Party in 1945 and was elected premier of the republic in 1948. |
http://vn.vladnews.ru/Arch/2003/ISS345/News/upd10.HTM |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
Kim Il-Sung was a fraud. He did not liberate the North from the Japanese. The Soviets did and then installed him into power.
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No one claimed on this thread that Kim Il Sung liberated the North from the Japanese. In fact, this is what I posted above:
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| In the north the Soviets told the Japanese and their collaborators to pack up and git, while in the south the US kept Japanese staff on, and reinstated pro-Jpn collaborators. This is a fact. Many ROK citizens reacted in anger. Fact. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| legrande wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| Guess that means you can't argue your case. Fair enough. |
Nah, it just means morons like you shall remain clueless. Go outside and get some fresh air, for crissakes, it's a nice spring day. |
Lagrande, mon ami, est-ce que vous pouvez cesser d'utiliser des mots comme "moron" en anglais?
Would you kindly follow the TOS and not use insults vis-a-vis other posters? The TOS (Terms of Service) are clear are regarding such things. I understand it may be tempting to lose control and feel someone is annoying you, but STOP IT.
Thank you,
'Rico |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| legrande wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| Guess that means you can't argue your case. Fair enough. |
Nah, it just means morons like you shall remain clueless. Go outside and get some fresh air, for crissakes, it's a nice spring day. |
Lagrande, mon ami, est-ce que vous pouvez cesser d'utiliser des mots comme "moron" en anglais?
Would you kindly follow the TOS and not use insults vis-a-vis other posters? The TOS (Terms of Service) are clear are regarding such things. I understand it may be tempting to lose control and feel someone is annoying you, but STOP IT.
Thank you,
'Rico |
I'd be glad to so long as you also contact other posters who use terms, strategies, and insults a little more extreme than "moron" (is it acceptable to refer to a whole category of people as "useless"?- see Job-related Discussion Forum), and are able to distinguish when one intends to inject some humor into a discussion.
Grazie,
Legrande |
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