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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: What should Obama do? |
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Unfortunately, in my opinion, the US reaction shows that there are so many in the US Government who are racist against Palestinians. It's one thing to dislike the Goldstone Report and trying to call for an investigation yourself, and another to just shield Israel for its abuses of another people. Such an approach basically damages the U.S. politically in front of the Arab World, Muslim countries, that Obama was trying to win over, and Europeans think the US can't stand up to Israel, and the Europeans don't want to upset the US, so they, like the US, wash their hands of the crimes Israel commits against the Palestinians.
The US, of course, dismisses the report just as it dismisses its past condemnations of settlements, and the UN resolutions it passed against such settlements. The US so little credibility in the region, and it's not because American values, really. Americans want more of a fair-handed approach in the region and if there was more democracy in America, the government wouldn't be doing what it's doing now. It's not a morally sound policy to stand for the oppression of others. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal".
It didn't say only all Christians and Jews are equal or only whites are equal. We're all human beings and the insane policies regarding Israel need to change ASAP, and all Americans need to push for that. We need peace for the region. The Gulf leaders in some cases could care less. They are interested in their image, hosting championships. The Palestinians have been sold as meat for the lion like apetite of the state of Israel which has little mercy for the occupied. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Apartheid is the Root of Israel�s Aggressions
Posted Tue, 09/22/2009 - 12:17
Israel reacted with typical feigned outrage at the United Nations report on war crimes and human rights violations committed by its forces in Gaza, last winter. The Jewish state's serial violations of international law are rooted in the barbarism of its governing principle, apartheid, which leads Israel to place itself �above the accepted norms of civilized behavior.�
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford
�Underlying Israeli lawlessness is the concept of a settler state constructed for the benefit of one ethnic group.�
The State of Israel, by far the world champion violator of international law as interpreted by the United Nations, is once again raining vitriol and insult on the world body that gave it birth 61 years ago. Since almost the day that the U.N. recognized the Jewish state in 1948, Israel has placed itself above the accepted norms of civilized behavior. In its six decades of existence, Israel has violated virtually every United Nations declaration and flaunted countless tenets of international legality, most often with the diplomatic, economic and military protection of the United States. Israel�s arrogant disregard for the world body reached new heights with the release of a U.N. report urging Israel to conduct an �independent� investigation into �war crimes� and �serious violations� of human rights during its brutal attack on Gaza, last winter.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu�s office claimed his government�s own investigation, which absolved Israel of crimes in the killing of 1,400 Palestinian men, women and children, was �a thousand times more serious� than that conducted by the U.N. Shimon Peres, Israel�s president, charged the U.N. with legitimizing �terrorist activity� and making �a mockery of history� by failing to recognize Israel�s right to �self-defense.� Other Israelis complained that the U.N. was making a case for �moral equivalency� between Israel and the Palestinian resistance.
full article with audio at link |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Apartheid is the Root of Israel�s Aggressions
Posted Tue, 09/22/2009 - 12:17
Israel reacted with typical feigned outrage at the United Nations report on war crimes and human rights violations committed by its forces in Gaza, last winter. The Jewish state's serial violations of international law are rooted in the barbarism of its governing principle, apartheid, which leads Israel to place itself �above the accepted norms of civilized behavior.�
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford
�Underlying Israeli lawlessness is the concept of a settler state constructed for the benefit of one ethnic group.�
The State of Israel, by far the world champion violator of international law as interpreted by the United Nations, is once again raining vitriol and insult on the world body that gave it birth 61 years ago. Since almost the day that the U.N. recognized the Jewish state in 1948, Israel has placed itself above the accepted norms of civilized behavior. In its six decades of existence, Israel has violated virtually every United Nations declaration and flaunted countless tenets of international legality, most often with the diplomatic, economic and military protection of the United States. Israel�s arrogant disregard for the world body reached new heights with the release of a U.N. report urging Israel to conduct an �independent� investigation into �war crimes� and �serious violations� of human rights during its brutal attack on Gaza, last winter.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu�s office claimed his government�s own investigation, which absolved Israel of crimes in the killing of 1,400 Palestinian men, women and children, was �a thousand times more serious� than that conducted by the U.N. Shimon Peres, Israel�s president, charged the U.N. with legitimizing �terrorist activity� and making �a mockery of history� by failing to recognize Israel�s right to �self-defense.� Other Israelis complained that the U.N. was making a case for �moral equivalency� between Israel and the Palestinian resistance.
full article with audio at link |
Israel is alleged to have used white phosphorous in areas where civilians were present. There have been civilians who have been burned by white phosphorous. If this is true, then that would be a war crime. A war crime is often associated with states, and terrorism with non-state actors like Hamas. Hamas has a quasi-state status.
The United States via Congress acted against the Goldstone Report without calling for a proper investigation of the Israeli Government. Thus, if Israel committed war crimes, then the US Government would be its accomplice by allowing to evade responsibilty for those crimes.
Israel and some right wing Jews insist that there is a double standard against Israel. Yet, Israel calls itself the only democracy in the region, but wants to be judged the same way as fascist regimes. In a way, that's an indirect admission that Israel is like those states with a horrible record.
Obviously, 22 Arab states and many Muslim countries and many non-Muslim countries will object to how Israel has conducted itself vis-a-vis the Palestinians. Also, there is a question regarding the use of cluster bombs in 2006 in Lebanon. A country that uses cluster bombs and white phosphorous in a questionable manner may condemn some of its soldiers for their actions, but is not a credible investigator of potential war crimes.
Imagine if the Germans or Italians said they would simply investigate alleged crimes after WWII.
Goldstone is an Orthodox Jew. He has been a judge for many years. He was shocked by what he saw in Gaza. He investigated. He, as a Jew, couldn't simply just ignore what he saw. He reported his findings. The judge supports Israel as a state. There is no doubt about that, but it doesn't mean he is supposed to excuse what he perceives as war crimes as a judge who has examined what happened in the Balkans in the 1990s.
He was also a judge in South Africa. How much more credible does one have to be to pass judgement? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Goldstone is an Orthodox Jew. He has been a judge for many years. He was shocked by what he saw in Gaza. He investigated. He, as a Jew, couldn't simply just ignore what he saw. He reported his findings. The judge supports Israel as a state. There is no doubt about that, but it doesn't mean he is supposed to excuse what he perceives as war crimes as a judge who has examined what happened in the Balkans in the 1990s.
He was also a judge in South Africa. How much more credible does one have to be to pass judgement? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:31 am Post subject: British Jews urge Brown to endorse Goldstone |
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British Jews urge Brown to endorse Goldstone report
Posted: 2009/11/27
From: MNN
Several British Jewish groups, critical of Israel, are urging Prime Minister Gordon Brown to alter his government`s policy and endorse the Goldstone report when it is debated by the UN Security Council.
London, Nov 27, (IRNA) -- Independent Jewish Voices and Jews for Justice for Palestinians are among a number of organisations intending to publicise an open letter to Brown warning that the Zionist regime should be brought to account for the war crimes it committed in Israel.
�Israel cannot afford, nor should it wish, to exempt itself from the scrutiny of the international community on these matters,� the letter says, according to a copy obtained by IRNA.
�We consider that it is the attempt to do so, rather than the Goldstone Report, that is damaging Israel,� says the letter, which is due to be published as a full-page advert in the Times newspaper on December 1.
The British government has come under fire from the Zionist lobby for failing to prevent the overwhelming UN adoption of the Goldstone report on the extent of alleged war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza.
In an unprecedented joint statement, the Board of Jewish Deputies, the Zionist Federation and the Jewish Leadership Council voiced their �anger� at the decision of the British government to abstain from vote at the UN General Assembly earlier this month.
But the letter, organised by Independent Jewish Voices, told Brown that it is �vital for you to recognise that British Jews do not speak with one voice on this matter.�
�We welcome the Goldstone Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict as a key document in the upholding of international law in situations of violent conflict, and regret your government's failure to endorse the report and its recommendations,� it said.
The British prime minister was urged instead to vote for the UN-sponsored findings, which have now been referred to the Security Council, at the �next available opportunity.� |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Gee, now why might he have done that?
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This shameful U-turn did not happen this week. It comes after more than a year and a half of a sustained campaign of intimidation and character assassination against the judge, a campaign whose like in the past destroyed mighty people such as US Senator William Fulbright who was shot down politically for his brave attempt to disclose AIPAC's illegal dealings with the State of Israel.
Already In October 2009, Goldstone told CNN, "I've got a great love for Israel" and "I've worked for many Israeli causes and continue to do so" (Video: "Fareed Zakaria GPS," 4 October 2009).
Given the fact that at the time he made this declaration of love he did not have any new evidence, as he claims now, one may wonder how could this love could not be at least weakened by what he discovered when writing, along with other members of the UN commission, his original report.
But worse was to come and exactly a year ago, in April 2010, the campaign against him reached new heights, or rather, lows. It was led by the chairman of the South African Zionist Federation, Avrom Krengel, who tried to prevent Goldstone from participating in his grandson's bar mitzvah in Johannesburg since "Goldstone caused irreparable damage to the Jewish people as a whole."
The South African Zionist Federation threatened to picket outside the synagogue during the ceremony. Worse was the interference of South Africa's Chief Rabbi, Warren Goldstein, who chastised Goldstone for "doing greater damage to the State of Israel." Last February, Goldstone said that "Hamas perpetrated war crimes, but Israel did not," in an interview that was not broadcast, according to a 3 April report the website of Israel's Channel 2. It was not enough: the Israelis demanded much more.
Readers might ask "so what?" and "why could Goldstone not withstand the heat?" Good questions, but alas the Zionization of Jewish communities and the false identification of Jewishness with Zionism is still a powerful disincentive that prevents liberal Jews from boldly facing Israel and its crimes. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I suppose the Zionists think this will improve the reputation of Israel in the minds of people who examined the Goldstone report. It will do exactly the opposite.
If one is fond of Israel Goldstone's 180� is a victory for the cause. A self-hating Jew comes home to the tribe and the most moral army on earth is vindicated again.
If one is hostile to Israel then the 180� is a sign that Zionists are unable to accept that hostility to the Jewish state is sourced in Jewish behaviour and not poor public relations. The belief that Zionsists are belligerent in their use/abuse of power and singularly focused on defending Israel no matter what it does is further reinforced.
The sides dig in harder.
..
When it comes time to document the behavior of the IDF again I'd like to see a non-Jew lead the official examination. Pick a random Chinese guy or something. Keep the identity anonymous so the character assassination squads can't holler and shout and scream and slur and the rest. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Many respectable folks have spent decades insisting that the "core issue" in the Middle East, if not the world, is the Israel-Palestine conflict � that it is the "running sore" whose eventual healing will heal the wider region and beyond. That was always gold-plated nonsense, but now the Arab spring has come along to prove it. Now the world can see that the peoples of Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, Syria and Bahrain have troubles aplenty that have nothing to do with Israel. There could be peace between Israelis and Palestinians tomorrow, but it wouldn't relieve those in Damascus or Manama or Sana'a from the yoke of tyranny. For them, Israel is not "the heart of the matter", as the cliche always insisted it was. The heart of the matter are the regimes who have oppressed them day in, day out, for 40 years or more.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/06/goldstone-report-israel-palestine
UN Human Development Report 2009
Life expectancy at birth:
Syria: 74.1
Occupied Palestinian Territories: 73.3
Jordan: 72.4
Lebanon: 71.9
Egypt: 69.9
Adult literacy rate:
Occupied Palestinian Territories: 93.8%
Jordan: 91.1%
Lebanon: 89.6%
Syria: 83.1%
Egypt: 66.4%
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Walid Badir, Israeli soccer star (captain of Israel's biggest club, Hapoel Tel Aviv), Arab-Israeli
Rana Raslan, former Miss Israel, Arab-Israeli
Mira Awad, Actress/singer/songwriter (represented Israel at the 2009 Eurovision Song Contest), Arab-Israeli
Salim Joubrain, Israeli Supreme Court Justice, Arab-Israeli
And, to finish on a humorous note, Omar Barghouti (born in Qatar, grew up in Egypt and later moved to Ramallah), leading Arab advocate for academic boycott of Israel, currently studying for a masters degree in philosophy at Tel Aviv University |
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