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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
| From what I've read about the march, it seems that they are protesting about the fact that society places the emphasis on the woman's responsibility not to get raped, rather than on people not to rape. |
Cops all ready do what they can regarding rapists in their own right. The only additional means of reducing rape open to them is to try to give women advice that they believe will help make them less likely to get raped. It's not about trying to blame the victim; no one's saying anyone deserves to get raped. No one's saying it's their fault if they get raped. All that is being said is this may well make it less likely (for reasons so totally intuitive and obvious that I can't even begin to understand how they're controversial).
| English Matt wrote: |
| I mean, do we really think that rapists go wandering around the streets looking for candidates to rape based upon how they are dressed? Most rapists do not rape because they want to have sex, rather it is about power. |
Every time an individual such as yourself pulls out this "rape is about power, not about sex," line in a context like this, I find it more suspicious and dubious (and let's be realistic, it was a suspicious and dubious claim to begin with).
| English Matt wrote: |
| Anyhow, as regards men who use roofies in a club. Are you telling me they will deliberately pick out the slutty looking girl? Or will they pick the girl they like the look of....a girl doesn't have to be dressed provocatively to be attractive after all. |
If dressing in a "slutty" fashion doesn't make women more attractive, why do they do it? You're contradicting yourself here; you say the man is more likely to rape a woman he likes the look of, but then insist that a woman who dresses in an intentionally alluring fashion is no more likely to get raped.
Your thinking here also directly contradicts the "rape is about power, not about sex" idea you previously expressed by implying a man is more likely to rape a woman he's attracted to. Even you obviously don't really believe that particular feminist propaganda line.
| English Matt wrote: |
| Last of all, most rapes are not comitted by strangers....so thinking that if a girl dresses provocatively and stands out she is therefore going to get raped is just fallacious. |
So you really think a woman dressing in a fashion that is deliberately intended to increase sexual allure doesn't have any impact at all on whether or not a non-stranger is likely to make the kind of advances which can lead to rape? That's so dubious and counter-intuitive that I wonder what makes you believe it. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Oh dear we are a brick wall aren't we! Try working in an organisation in which you work with rape victims, listen to their stories, talk to the police about the cases they've worked on and maybe you might get a better understanding of the issue. |
I don't find the above convincing.
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| Quite frankly, this will be my last comment on the issue as I have no wish to engage in a dialogue with such a misogynist |
Leftists like to define whatever is outside of the current leftist zeitgeist as hate. The goalposts of acceptable discourse are so narrow, I wonder how you people speak more than 5 words a day.
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| , who has also shown in other threads that he believes in racial superiority. |
Racial differences. Actually, I don't like the use of the word race as a descriptor as it is much too broad. I've not made claims to an inherent hierarchy. Groups are different and produce different outcomes. This is a topic that has to be discussed and challenged because of the prevailing attitude among the elite that differences in outcome can only be explained by differences in conditioning, which is a recipe for a horrid Orwellian nightmare. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| English Matt wrote: |
| From what I've read about the march, it seems that they are protesting about the fact that society places the emphasis on the woman's responsibility not to get raped, rather than on people not to rape. |
Cops all ready do what they can regarding rapists in their own right. The only additional means of reducing rape open to them is to try to give women advice that they believe will help make them less likely to get raped. It's not about trying to blame the victim; no one's saying anyone deserves to get raped. No one's saying it's their fault if they get raped. All that is being said is this may well make it less likely (for reasons so totally intuitive and obvious that I can't even begin to understand how they're controversial).
| English Matt wrote: |
| I mean, do we really think that rapists go wandering around the streets looking for candidates to rape based upon how they are dressed? Most rapists do not rape because they want to have sex, rather it is about power. |
Every time an individual such as yourself pulls out this "rape is about power, not about sex," line in a context like this, I find it more suspicious and dubious (and let's be realistic, it was a suspicious and dubious claim to begin with).
| English Matt wrote: |
| Anyhow, as regards men who use roofies in a club. Are you telling me they will deliberately pick out the slutty looking girl? Or will they pick the girl they like the look of....a girl doesn't have to be dressed provocatively to be attractive after all. |
If dressing in a "slutty" fashion doesn't make women more attractive, why do they do it? You're contradicting yourself here; you say the man is more likely to rape a woman he likes the look of, but then insist that a woman who dresses in an intentionally alluring fashion is no more likely to get raped.
Your thinking here also directly contradicts the "rape is about power, not about sex" idea you previously expressed by implying a man is more likely to rape a woman he's attracted to. Even you obviously don't really believe that particular feminist propaganda line.
| English Matt wrote: |
| Last of all, most rapes are not comitted by strangers....so thinking that if a girl dresses provocatively and stands out she is therefore going to get raped is just fallacious. |
So you really think a woman dressing in a fashion that is deliberately intended to increase sexual allure doesn't have any impact at all on whether or not a non-stranger is likely to make the kind of advances which can lead to rape? That's so dubious and counter-intuitive that I wonder what makes you believe it. |
Given that the majority of rapes are planned in advance....no I do not think that saying women should dress less provocatively will reduce their overall risk of getting raped by somebody they know.
Given that someone doesn't have to be dressed provocatively to be attractive.....no, I don't think that the person they already know who tries to rape them is going to decide today is a bad day to rape because the victim isn't wearing a shirt of a low enough cut. Your comment with regards to my previous comment in this area would appear to say more about you than it does me.....maybe girls who are dressed more provocatively are more attractive to you (regardless of their face, bodytype or personality.....maybe you find the girls wearing less more rapeable).
Given that it is not just pretty young girls that are raped, I would say that it is often not about the attractiveness of the victim at all.
Given that many women receive injuries during the assault that were not related to the rape, I think we can definitely say that violence, domination and power over the victim play a part.
I think we can safely say that given sex is part of the assault that the rapist does achieve some kind of sexual gratification, however it is not the primary reason he rapes. Why is there often so much violence involved? If it were just about sex, why not pay a prostitute or ask just about every girl in the club until they agree to come home with you?
The rapist wants to 'possess' a particular girl (or archetype that he sees in the girl). In what way can you show your dominance over another person more than by physically overpowering and penetrating them.....this may enhance the sexual experience for the rapist but I do not agree (nor does prevailing academic research in this area) that rapists primarily rape for sex. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
I think the posts in this thread, thus far, actually legitimise the actions of these women....good job guys. |
Okay, now I am a little irked. I firmly laid the blame at the feet of Ontario as a whole!
Clearly, I am a regionalist, not necessarily a sexist. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
Given that the majority of rapes are planned in advance....no I do not think that saying women should dress less provocatively will reduce their overall risk of getting raped by somebody they know. |
Do you have any stats or studies to back this up? Interesting, I did not know that. But perhaps what caught the rapist's eye initially was provocate clothing. Just because a rape is planned in advance does not mean clothing did not play a role.
| Quote: |
Given that someone doesn't have to be dressed provocatively to be attractive.....no, I don't think that the person they already know who tries to rape them is going to decide today is a bad day to rape because the victim isn't wearing a shirt of a low enough cut. Your comment with regards to my previous comment in this area would appear to say more about you than it does me.....maybe girls who are dressed more provocatively are more attractive to you (regardless of their face, bodytype or personality.....maybe you find the girls wearing less more rapeable).
Given that it is not just pretty young girls that are raped, I would say that it is often not about the attractiveness of the victim at all. |
There is a difference between being sexually attractive and attractive in general. There are plenty of women who I think are beautiful who don't inspire arousal while there are plenty of women I wouldn't deem attractive who do. Why? Ask my hormones.
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Given that many women receive injuries during the assault that were not related to the rape, I think we can definitely say that violence, domination and power over the victim play a part.
I think we can safely say that given sex is part of the assault that the rapist does achieve some kind of sexual gratification, however it is not the primary reason he rapes. Why is there often so much violence involved? If it were just about sex, why not pay a prostitute or ask just about every girl in the club until they agree to come home with you? |
Umm because some guys get off with rough, brutal sex? Perhaps so brutal that few if any women would say yes? Are you really asking that question?
| Quote: |
| The rapist wants to 'possess' a particular girl (or archetype that he sees in the girl). In what way can you show your dominance over another person more than by physically overpowering and penetrating them.....this may enhance the sexual experience for the rapist but I do not agree (nor does prevailing academic research in this area) that rapists primarily rape for sex. |
Right, you said it yourself: enhance. It is a combination of sex and power that they love. I think it is silly to say one is a higher priority than the other. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
Given that the majority of rapes are planned in advance |
Yeah, I don't believe that. I don't believe any of the nonsense statistics feminist organizations just make up in order to push their agenda. How can they even know the majority of rapes are planned in advance given they also assert that the majority of rapes go unreported, thus denying them any evidence about them at all?
| English Matt wrote: |
Given that someone doesn't have to be dressed provocatively to be attractive.....no, I don't think that the person they already know who tries to rape them is going to decide today is a bad day to rape because the victim isn't wearing a shirt of a low enough cut.
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Trying to play sophist isn't going to get you anywhere. You've all ready admitted in a previous post that you believe a man is more likely to rape a woman who he "likes the look of." The idea that dressing provocatively can't and won't make a man more likely to like "the look of" you is simply ridiculous; it's an assertion that, if it were true, would defeat the entire purpose of dressing provocatively in the first place.
If you aren't going to take this conversation seriously, I don't know why you bothered to start it.
| English Matt wrote: |
| Your comment with regards to my previous comment in this area would appear to say more about you than it does me .....maybe girls who are dressed more provocatively are more attractive to you (regardless of their face, bodytype or personality.....maybe you find the girls wearing less more rapeable). |
How quickly and obviously feminism resorts to attempts at bully tactics. Implying I'm a rapist because I'm not willing to buy into your baseless, dubious, counter-intuitive declarations is not going to win you any points here.
| English Matt wrote: |
| Given that it is not just pretty young girls that are raped, I would say that it is often not about the attractiveness of the victim at all. |
This directly contradicts something you said in a previous post. Your position is incoherent.
| English Matt wrote: |
| Given that many women receive injuries during the assault that were not related to the rape, I think we can definitely say that violence, domination and power over the victim play a part. |
This is even more hazy and dubious than your previous assertions. "Many" women receive injuries "not related" to the rape during the course of the rape? How many is many, and what constitutes a non-rape related injury? And further, how can a group of feminists just sit around and puzzle out whether or not a given inflicted act of violence is really related to the rapist's sex drive or not, given they really aren't in a position to empathize with him at all? This is just more bullshit smoke screen to try to defend a questionable position. It won't work here, save it for the echo-chamber feminist conventions.
| English Matt wrote: |
| The rapist wants ... |
The last thing I'm interested in is hearing a fellow like yourself talk definitively about what rapists do or don't want. I'm 100% certain you aren't a rapist yourself, and your source of data is the least trustworthy possible source on the topic, so let's just not even get into that. It won't make your "case" any stronger anyway.
| English Matt wrote: |
| (nor does prevailing academic research in this area) that rapists primarily rape for sex. |
Academic research on this topic is done to push an agenda, not to search for truth. Feminists don't "research" rape in order to understand it, they create an idea of it that suits their purposes, and then search for justification. Justification fellows like you unfortunately eat right up.
I want to be clear about something: I don't support rape, at all. I find it repugnant, I think it's abusive, and when it occurs it should be prosecuted like any other crime. None the less, I refuse to be badgered by feminist storm-troopers such as yourself because I recognize that there are in fact things a woman can wisely do to reduce her chances of getting raped. Not doing those things doesn't mean she deserved to get raped, but it does quite possibly mean she was behaving unwisely, and that other women should learn from her mistakes instead of sitting around insisting, "Oh, there's nothing she could have done, and don't you know it's not even about sex anyway?"
Last edited by Fox on Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| I think this is a clear example of why this thread should be locked and deleted post-haste. |
Because SB cracked a joke? You can't take a joke?
There is a group of regulars on this forum who get on just fine even though we agree on little. I've never ever seen a regular poster demand censorship. Ever. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think this is a clear example of why this thread should be locked and deleted post-haste. |
Because SB cracked a joke? You can't take a joke?
There is a group of regulars on this forum who get on just fine even though we agree on little. I've never ever seen a regular poster demand censorship. Ever. |
If you think that is the sort of joke that should be tolerated and worse if you find it funny, then you are sick.
Last edited by English Matt on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
Oh dear we are a brick wall aren't we! Try working in an organisation in which you work with rape victims, listen to their stories, talk to the police about the cases they've worked on and maybe you might get a better understanding of the issue. |
No. You try working in an organization for men falsely accused of rape, cases in which a young lady (dressed like a *beep*, btw, and drunk) goes home willingly with a guy she just met at the bar, and the next morning decides she didn't want it after all, and reports the guy for rape. Most cases of "rape" are not of the violent type some feminists would have you believe.
| Quote: |
| Quite frankly, this will be my last comment on the issue as I have no wish to engage in a dialogue with such a misogynist, who has also shown in other threads that he believes in racial superiority. |
Ooh, mises, ouch! Slammed by ID politics! 
| English Matt wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think this is a clear example of why this thread should be locked and deleted post-haste. |
Because SB cracked a joke? You can't take a joke?
There is a group of regulars on this forum who get on just fine even though we agree on little. I've never ever seen a regular poster demand censorship. Ever. |
If you think that is the sort of joke that should be tolerated and worse if you find it funny, then you are sick. |
No. Lack of a sense of humor is symptomatic of psycho- or sociopathology.
Last edited by Space Bar on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| English Matt wrote: |
Oh dear we are a brick wall aren't we! Try working in an organisation in which you work with rape victims, listen to their stories, talk to the police about the cases they've worked on and maybe you might get a better understanding of the issue. |
No. You try working in an organization for men falsely accused of rape, cases in which a young lady (dressed like a *beep*, btw, and drunk) goes home willingly with a guy she just met at the bar, and the next morning decides she didn't want it after all, and reports the guy for rape. Most cases of "rape" are not of the violent type some feminists would have you believe.
| Quote: |
| Quite frankly, this will be my last comment on the issue as I have no wish to engage in a dialogue with such a misogynist, who has also shown in other threads that he believes in racial superiority. |
Ooh, mises, ouch! Slammed by ID politics! |
And then we can all have a good laugh about women being violently raped to the point that their reproductive organs suffer permanent damage. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| English Matt wrote: |
Oh dear we are a brick wall aren't we! Try working in an organisation in which you work with rape victims, listen to their stories, talk to the police about the cases they've worked on and maybe you might get a better understanding of the issue. |
No. You try working in an organization for men falsely accused of rape, cases in which a young lady (dressed like a *beep*, btw, and drunk) goes home willingly with a guy she just met at the bar, and the next morning decides she didn't want it after all, and reports the guy for rape. Most cases of "rape" are not of the violent type some feminists would have you believe.
| Quote: |
| Quite frankly, this will be my last comment on the issue as I have no wish to engage in a dialogue with such a misogynist, who has also shown in other threads that he believes in racial superiority. |
Ooh, mises, ouch! Slammed by ID politics! |
And then we can all have a good laugh about women being violently raped to the point that their reproductive organs suffer permanent damage. |
Umm ok. Dude, chill. No one here is pro-rape or misogynist. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Fox properly dealt with this:
Fox said:
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| How quickly and obviously feminism resorts to attempts at bully tactics. Implying I'm a rapist because I'm not willing to buy into your baseless, dubious, counter-intuitive declarations is not going to win you any points here. |
SB said:
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| We should have a parade of men dressed as rapists. Exclamation Our slogan could be, "Just because we look like rapists doesn't mean you have to be a victim!" |
EM replied:
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| And then we can all have a good laugh about women being violently raped to the point that their reproductive organs suffer permanent damage. |
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