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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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austrian123
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
In an EFL classroom there has to be constant change of focus to retain the students' attention.
If the teacher fails to make the effort to bring this about then the alternative becomes a disruptive class which is even more tiring. |
See, this is something that I fully disagree with.
It's not your job to keep them entertained, which is what it sounds like you're suggesting-- that's basically the same as teaching them that life will always give them everything they need to be happy, they are the boss, and if they're not happy, then it's someone else's (namely your) fault. You're not teaching them anything by trying to cater to their level... you're supposed to be bringing them up to YOUR level.
Your job is to teach the students how to be more organized, to respect and support each other, to respect and support you, and basically how to behave like decent human beings. This is how learning happens... through respect, discipline and organization. If you yourself are not like this, then you really can't teach anyone anything.
I've actually met children in grade 3 elementary school (usually girls) who are more mature than some of the ESL teachers I've run into... and I wish I were kidding. |
Milk, I sure admire your idealism.
But on the whole I disagree with you. What you're talking about belongs to a classroom in your home country.
In EFL our responsibility is to engender a love for English. We have to get the students to a pitch we they WANT to learn English. By dint of our looks, style, whatever turns them on. The Korean teachers must do the spadework and the nuts and bolts of English. We are purely facilitators.
We do attitude. |
Completely disagree. Teachers by and large are responsible for teaching children so that They LEARN!!!! |
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tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: What I've noticed about ESL in Korea |
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| shifty wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
A real teacher is more than being able to speak in front of a group of kids for a period and be about their way. Most of us here are not real teachers and have no idea about what a real teacher goes through.
If the majority of people teaching here had to go through all of the trials of a real teacher they wouldn't be here.
Plain and simple. |
'EFL teacher' is a misnomer. We aren't teachers, we don't want to be and generally our English is 'so so'. Still and all, I'd like to see a REAL teacher contentedly do back to back hakwon jobs without getting the mutters.
REAL teachers do extra murals, put up with pain in ass parents, work Saturday sports, perennial bad pay, in public eye or quick jaunt to town expected to don robe of office, high upfront qualification cost with boring education diplomas.... it's damn endless. You right, I wouldn't do it.
But they chose that life quite deliberately, didn't they? And often in bid to seek perpetual job security. Not EFL material, broadly speaking.
Those endless vacs they get; bunch of softies seeking the easy life. |
See there's a problem with that there paragraph. We are teachers be default. Now, whether the majority of us are qualified is another debate point. But the ingredients are there:
A classroom.
Students
A teacher.
There are some parts missing but here you have a rudimentary device for "learning" which was when the last I checked the fundamental part of being a teacher.
Is the system flawed? Yes. It's flawed on both ends both from our side and the Korean side.
If the Korean side wanted people with higher qualifications they would get them.
If the majority of people working in schools here wanted to be teachers they would be.
But these flaws, which benefit the ADULTS in these situations, often cause stagnation in the actual learning process.
Why do you think the majority of us working in public feel we have our wrists tied?
The teachers are trying to reduce the amount of damage that an English speaker with little to no training can do.
Why do you think you feel that you don't have enough power when trying to deal with your hogwan co-workers?
Because it's about profit pure and simple.
To be a teacher here requires a balancing act like no other: dealing with your school's culture and what they expect from you.
But, in the end, if you strip away the flights, apartments, co-workers and money what are you reduced to?
A classroom
Students
A teacher
Take everything that makes us special away and you still have this recipe for learning.
That's what makes a teacher.
It isn't the flight, pension or our ability to utter this language; it's those three things.
But people both Native and Foreign are rather set in their ways and the cycle will continue until it's milked dry. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| austrian123 wrote: |
1) I came to Korea because I wanted to travel!
My response: Really? If you really wanted to travel why did you come to Korea? The truth of the matter is when most people think of Asia, Korea doesn't exactly come to mind. Most people think of Japan and China first.
Also, the very definition of travel means wanting spend time leisurely without having to work. When was the last time one had to work while traveling. Sounds more like you came to Korea not travel, but more Like you needed find a find a job and let's face it, it's easier to date Korean girls than girls in your home country. |
Uh, yeah, "travel" is a polite euphemism for "flee the dreadful conditions in my home country", what's your point? |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| In EFL our responsibility is to engender a love for English. |
People love and respect the fair and kind king a lot more than the fun and hip jester. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| austrian123 wrote: |
| Teachers by and large are responsible for teaching children so that They LEARN!!!! |
Well, of course, how otherwise could it be?
But we are not teachers. I'm sure you wrote so yourself somewhere. I don't feel like dredging through your posts to find it. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| People love and respect the fair and kind king a lot more than the fun and hip jester. |
Your words, not mine. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| People love and respect the fair and kind king a lot more than the fun and hip jester. |
Your words, not mine. |
Well, yeah they are.
I mean that you're not a king if you act like a fool... and the whole 'fun and hip' thing is more like the latter. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| People love and respect the fair and kind king a lot more than the fun and hip jester. |
Your words, not mine. |
Well, yeah they are.
I mean that you're not a king if you act like a fool... and the whole 'fun and hip' thing is more like the latter. |
I do what's necessary to get job done. |
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ytide
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
In the 60's and 70's the powers that be in South Africa realised that we needed every White that we could get and decided to encourage immigration from the UK.
The English arrived in droves and were marked by one thing; their readiness to moan. ... They always called it 'back home' about 50 times a day within our earshot and drove us bats. Not all of them, but the great majority. |
Shifty,
I take this to mean you are an Afrikaans native speaker? (Though seemingly with an effectively-fluent command of English).
Was it any hard for you to find ESL work? Or did Koreans simply not realize South Africa is not New Zealand in the "language stock" of its whites? (i.e., waving an RSA passport and a photo of a white face is enough for them). |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
[But then, if you look at the threads here, most of them are not asking about teaching methods, or what to do, or materials... the people who genuinely try to do well in this job get minimal attention, or are ignored completely.
Most people are whining about not enough time off, getting out of extra classes, their co-teachers not helping them enough, Korean hygeine, how to get around visa regulations, MONEY, or how they haven't got a clue what to do.
I think that's a pretty accurate reflection of your average ESL teacher in Korea-- utterly clueless and purely self-interested... and it's amazing how people with no qualifications, experience, creativity, interest or ideas on how to improve can actually get upset when they are criticized for not doing their job properly. I would even go so far as to say that a lot of ESL teachers are incapable of even setting a moral standard for their students, because they don't know what that is, or they don't care, or think it's BS.
It's not really their fault... they're usually young, aimless and they're used to not caring and having it easy. They figure 'well, I'm still young and this isn't what I want to do with my life' so they put zero effort into it, dismiss it as a 'temporary thing', and try to extract as much money and time off out of it as they possibly can.
So yeah, basically:
'I'm not doing this forever'= 'Who cares if I'm good at this stupid job? I'm here. PAY ME.'. |
While I was reading this I wondered why it sounded so familar and then I realized why...I'd been saying the same things on this board for years. I believe that you and I (in particular) had more than one go around about these issues |
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austrian123
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| austrian123 wrote: |
| Teachers by and large are responsible for teaching children so that They LEARN!!!! |
Well, of course, how otherwise could it be?
But we are not teachers. I'm sure you wrote so yourself somewhere. I don't feel like dredging through your posts to find it. |
yes we are not Real teachers. Only certified teachers are real teachers. doesnt mean you shouldnt try to teach these kids something. Afterall that is what we are paid to do. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ytide wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
In the 60's and 70's the powers that be in South Africa realised that we needed every White that we could get and decided to encourage immigration from the UK.
The English arrived in droves and were marked by one thing; their readiness to moan. ... They always called it 'back home' about 50 times a day within our earshot and drove us bats. Not all of them, but the great majority. |
Shifty,
I take this to mean you are an Afrikaans native speaker? (Though seemingly with an effectively-fluent command of English).
Was it any hard for you to find ESL work? Or did Koreans simply not realize South Africa is not New Zealand in the "language stock" of its whites? (i.e., waving an RSA passport and a photo of a white face is enough for them). |
I would have thought 'bats' is a common enough expression; admittedly it is dated. It means 'babo' or dilly to give you another expression of yesteryear.
I am in fact a native English speaker as are most Saffas in Korea. As I said Afrikaners in Korea have adequate English, since odds are they have majored in English. They are also a virile can-do people, just the ticket for teaching in Korea. They are stoic and not given to vent their frustrations at every opportunity.
At the time of me branching off into Korea, native speakers were starting to get scarce. Nevertheless, when recruiters finally clapped eyes on my date of birth many of them would drop me like a hot potato. But as I got contacts and the reputation of Korea became even more leery, it became quite easy. Until I had to fight them off.
Not anymore, of course. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| austrian123 wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
| austrian123 wrote: |
| Teachers by and large are responsible for teaching children so that They LEARN!!!! |
Well, of course, how otherwise could it be?
But we are not teachers. I'm sure you wrote so yourself somewhere. I don't feel like dredging through your posts to find it. |
yes we are not Real teachers. Only certified teachers are real teachers. doesnt mean you shouldnt try to teach these kids something. Afterall that is what we are paid to do. |
You know Austrian, I'm starting to get real worried about you. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Interesting discussion. Regarding ESL teachers as real teachers,ok, you don't have the same duties as regular full-time teachers but you don't receive the same level of compensation either. Let me ask you this, thinking back to your old school days, do you remember who was contract teachers meaning show up, teach, and call it a day, and who were regular full-time teachers? I do now in hindsight, but as a student, a teacher was anyone standing up in front of you in the room teaching you something. I think ESL teachers demeanour and attitude carries a lot of weight than some people would like to believe, and in a certain way more than their regular teachers because for some students, you are their first contact with someone who is culturally different than them.
In Korea, whenever I met someone who made a point to let everyone they are a CERTIFIED teacher (ooooooh!) I used to privately roll my eyes a little bit, like someone who is a supervisor at a call centre making 25cents more an hour than regular employees and taking their job too seriously. I don't think certification is that big of a deal, especially the glutton of teachers in Canada, and the industry has had huge certification creep over the last 30 years. Does a teaching certifification really need to be a 1-2 year B.Ed? Or do teachers really need to do a 4 year degree before doing their B.Ed.? 30 years ago most teachers didn't even have a university degree. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| I don't think certification is that big of a deal, especially the glutton of teachers in Canada, and the industry has had huge certification creep over the last 30 years. |
It's interesting that overeating is such a problem with Canadian teachers. |
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