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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:19 am Post subject: |
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This is the only thing I've heard:
"TRIPOLI, Libya � A delegation of African leaders said Sunday that their Libyan counterpart, Moammar Gadhafi, accepted their "road map" for a cease-fire with rebels, whom they will meet Monday...The African Union's road map calls for an immediate cease-fire, cooperation in opening channels for humanitarian aid and starting a dialogue between the rebels and the government. AU officials, however, made no mention of any requirement for Gadhafi to pull his troops out of cities as rebels have demanded."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/10/libya-cease-fire-road-map_n_847226.html
The article didn't make it sound all that important since the AU hadn't talked to the rebels yet. Color me skeptical until both sides have agreed to something. Anything. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
^
This is the only thing I've heard:
"TRIPOLI, Libya � A delegation of African leaders said Sunday that their Libyan counterpart, Moammar Gadhafi, accepted their "road map" for a cease-fire with rebels, whom they will meet Monday...The African Union's road map calls for an immediate cease-fire, cooperation in opening channels for humanitarian aid and starting a dialogue between the rebels and the government. AU officials, however, made no mention of any requirement for Gadhafi to pull his troops out of cities as rebels have demanded."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/10/libya-cease-fire-road-map_n_847226.html
The article didn't make it sound all that important since the AU hadn't talked to the rebels yet. Color me skeptical until both sides have agreed to something. Anything. |
I think an interesting part is that a constant request of the Transitional Government is that they have asked for troops to be pulled back from all cities, and the residents to be free to express their opinions peacefully. This, by anyone's standards, is not an unreasonable request - surely for any credibility, with the AU delegation being his last chance to save face as a statesman, Ghaddaffi must agree to this. The Rebels could ask for the right to demonstrate across Libya without insisting on his departure - I think the result would be the same; he'd go because the demonstrations would be massive, like Egypt.
Ghaddaffi forces have just been absolutely spanked by NATO over the last few days as well, stories of desperate acts in their ranks, some being Algerian and other mercenaries - I don't think Ghaddaffi has got that much left. |
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wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Did anyone catch this on youtube?
"Libya Rebels had NATO Weapons from Day 1 - Brand New in the box!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJapluertM&feature=player_embedded#at=527
Originally in Russian, it shows various photos and videos of the rebels and points out the NATO equipment, basically claiming that it's evidence of covert support for rebels prior to the start of the conflict. The would make "outside forces" instigators of the conflict rather than humanitarians on a mercy mission.
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion, since I don't know when the photos were taken or what weapon deals have been made, legit or otherwise, but it is interesting. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| wintermute wrote: |
Did anyone catch this on youtube?
"Libya Rebels had NATO Weapons from Day 1 - Brand New in the box!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJapluertM&feature=player_embedded#at=527
Originally in Russian, it shows various photos and videos of the rebels and points out the NATO equipment, basically claiming that it's evidence of covert support for rebels prior to the start of the conflict. The would make "outside forces" instigators of the conflict rather than humanitarians on a mercy mission.
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion, since I don't know when the photos were taken or what weapon deals have been made, legit or otherwise, but it is interesting. |
Conspiracy theory. Note all the other links put up with that clip - all pro-ghaddafi "CIA are orchestrating all this" conspiracy theories, typical really. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Russian evidence of NATO nefariousness? I'll wait for some actual 'evidence'. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Yeah the Chinese have been running with the theme that all this was started by the Western powers. Now they seem to be backing off of that. I would be skeptical of that 'evidence"
I just hope the A.U. effort can end this. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Conspiracy theory. Note all the other links put up with that clip - all pro-ghaddafi "CIA are orchestrating all this" conspiracy theories, typical really. |
Yeah, how unthinkable. Because the CIA has never funded rebels or orchestrated coups in other countries  |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Any reference to CIA behavior is always shamed with pejoratives and shrugged off as conspiratorial.
The CIA has a 30 billion dollar a year budget ($30,000,000,000.00). With that money it has killer office pizza parties and absolutely nothing else. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Any reference to CIA behavior is always shamed with pejoratives and shrugged off as conspiratorial.
The CIA has a 30 billion dollar a year budget ($30,000,000,000.00). With that money it has killer office pizza parties and absolutely nothing else. |
That's $30 billion not including the global drug trade they use to fund their activities under the table; all the illegal things they could never get money from Congress to do openly. The heroin shipped into the US alone (guarded by US troops in Afghanistan) is worth a few hundred $ billion a year. Both Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, and his brother, the most powerful and wealthiest narcotics trafficker in Afghanistan, were trained as CIA assets. This is on record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBh_hzU-jdI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj-b3pB6M7s |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Russian evidence of NATO nefariousness? I'll wait for some actual 'evidence'. |
 Right. Me too.
Things not going too too well in Benghazi but I suppose it is what we expected. AU haven't proven themselves much good at anything so far and the Transitional Council are probably wise not to trust them. They have all been in Ghaddaffi's pocket for a long old while.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201141116454184309.html |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Everyone knows the CIA robs the developing world of any sort of agency. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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The Rebels could ask for the right to demonstrate across Libya without insisting on his departure - I think the result would be the same; he'd go because the demonstrations would be massive, like Egypt...
- I don't think Ghaddaffi has got that much left. |
A couple of days ago there was a report, with video, of a dawn protest by some students in Tripoli itself. It wasn't big or anything, but it took a lot of guts for anyone to come out for a demonstration in a city controlled by armed loyalist soldiers. So my conclusion is the same as yours. If the right to peaceful assembly were to be restored, there would be massive protests just like in Egypt.
Every day that goes by without Qaddafi crushing the opposition makes me think he's getting weaker. Poorly armed, untrained, unorganized/disorganized opposition vs. well-armed trained army and who's still on their feet?
The Transitional National Council has rejected outright the African Union's proposal to negotiate a way out from the deepening crisis in Libya.
The Benghazi-based council, set up in opposition to longterm leader Muammar Gaddafi, said the "road map" set out by a delegation of five African presidents was "outdated", following the deaths and destruction wreaked in the past month since the proposals were first outlined.
"The demand of our people of our people from day one was that Gaddafi must step down," spokesman Mustafa Jabril said.
"Any initiative which does not include this key popuar demand will not be regarded.
"Muammar Gaddafi and his sons should depart immediately."
"The main thing we want is for Gaddafi and his family to get out and to be judged ... And we want the withdrawal of all troops from the towns," Azza Hussein, a doctor waiting with the crowds outside the airport, said."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201141116356323979.html# |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Every day that goes by without Qaddafi crushing the opposition makes me think he's getting weaker. Poorly armed, untrained, unorganized/disorganized opposition vs. well-armed trained army and who's still on their feet? |
Just imagine 5 or 10 years from now: he'll be a really weakened leader! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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He's 68 now. In 5 years he'll be 73 and in 10 he'll be 78. I think you're on to something. |
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