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Imperial
Joined: 15 May 2010
Location: Moonside
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 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not contesting that Chinese won't rise to prominence but other rising economic powers also use it. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| So are you saying that it will be bad for china to start consuming all the goods they make and improve their standard of living? Should they keep on being forced to work all day to trade their products for useless t bills? |
Not at all, I'm just saying that there's another side to consider. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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History is replete with examples that the top political-eonomic power's language became the language of trade and/or diplomacy.
If China, if current trends continue, becomes the world's largest economy, then over time why should they be the sole exception historically?
No one thought french being used as the language of diplomacy and commerce would ever end in Europe 300 years ago. It ended why? First England then America became the pre-eminent power.
Maybe english won't be replaced but if one believes that it won't after America is no longer biggest economy and is second to China economically and politically globally, then you're suggesting that an exception to historical precedence would happen. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| If Chinese is going to be the world language, they'd probably have to simplify their language. Having studied Chinese and knowing that Chiense children spend about 6 years learning to write, it's much more complicated than English or French in that respect. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
History is replete with examples that the top political-eonomic power's language became the language of trade and/or diplomacy.
If China, if current trends continue, becomes the world's largest economy, then over time why should they be the sole exception historically?
No one thought french being used as the language of diplomacy and commerce would ever end in Europe 300 years ago. It ended why? First England then America became the pre-eminent power.
Maybe english won't be replaced but if one believes that it won't after America is no longer biggest economy and is second to China economically and politically globally, then you're suggesting that an exception to historical precedence would happen. |
Well, I gave a few reasons why back on page 4. Circumstances are not the same now as they were with France.
Although...my gut feeling says you could be right. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| shostahoosier wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Salaries are already less than they were years ago when you factor in exchange rates and inflation. teachers will be seeking out greener pastures like Vietnam, Thailand, or China, where their money will go further. |
I love it when people are so wise and have such insight in the global workings of Supply and Demand. |
I love it when people criticize someone's post without offering their own correct, expert opinion. 
Im not saying she is right or wrong, but if you disagree with someone, then say why. |
I find sufficient compensation in informing others of their seeming ignorance/arrogance/fallacy/... |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| I find sufficient compensation in informing others of their seeming ignorance/arrogance/fallacy/... |
And how do you feel when people do that to you? Without using facts and evidence? |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| shostahoosier wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Salaries are already less than they were years ago when you factor in exchange rates and inflation. teachers will be seeking out greener pastures like Vietnam, Thailand, or China, where their money will go further. |
I love it when people are so wise and have such insight in the global workings of Supply and Demand. |
I love it when people criticize someone's post without offering their own correct, expert opinion.
Im not saying she is right or wrong, but if you disagree with someone, then say why. |
I find sufficient compensation in informing others of their seeming ignorance/arrogance/fallacy/... |
Then you'd fit right in at Fox News...no brain or facts necessary....just hot air. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| shostahoosier wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| shostahoosier wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Salaries are already less than they were years ago when you factor in exchange rates and inflation. teachers will be seeking out greener pastures like Vietnam, Thailand, or China, where their money will go further. |
I love it when people are so wise and have such insight in the global workings of Supply and Demand. |
I love it when people criticize someone's post without offering their own correct, expert opinion.
Im not saying she is right or wrong, but if you disagree with someone, then say why. |
I find sufficient compensation in informing others of their seeming ignorance/arrogance/fallacy/... |
Then you'd fit right in at Fox News...no brain or facts necessary....just hot air. |
LOL Fox News is the most straight-shooting, truthful news agency in the country! You think Olbermann and that pig Maddow are better quality than Fox? All they do is slander and nitpick on what Fox does.
Fox news reports the facts, I'm a witness to that. I don't know what your smoking to discredit them. MSNBC is just a freak show. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Um, this thread isn't about news networks, you guys. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
LOL Fox News is the most straight-shooting, truthful news agency in the country! You think Olbermann and that pig Maddow are better quality than Fox? All they do is slander and nitpick on what Fox does.
Fox news reports the facts, I'm a witness to that. I don't know what your smoking to discredit them. MSNBC is just a freak show. |
LOL
LOL again
This is good stuff. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Back to the topic, the future of ESL in Korea .... I suppose it will keep bumbling along as it has been.
Korea seems dead set against change, especially any positive ones. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| isitts wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
History is replete with examples that the top political-eonomic power's language became the language of trade and/or diplomacy.
If China, if current trends continue, becomes the world's largest economy, then over time why should they be the sole exception historically?
No one thought french being used as the language of diplomacy and commerce would ever end in Europe 300 years ago. It ended why? First England then America became the pre-eminent power.
Maybe english won't be replaced but if one believes that it won't after America is no longer biggest economy and is second to China economically and politically globally, then you're suggesting that an exception to historical precedence would happen. |
Well, I gave a few reasons why back on page 4. Circumstances are not the same now as they were with France.
Although...my gut feeling says you could be right. |
In the near future English will continue to be the language of trade. For the purposes of the OPs question, the future of teaching english in Korea won't change significantly for us. I do think there will be a lot of chinese schools popping up here and there but english will be dominan. In a generation or two in may not be the case.
With regards to your statement about english being used. First England was the biggest economic power throughout the 1800s and had a huge empire in every continent. The sun never sets on the British Empire was a saying and a fact. Then America surpassed Britain's GNP around the turn of the last century and became the biggest economic power so there was an even bigger reason to learn english. The top two economic powers up to world war 2 spoke english. After WW2 we were the only economic power left. That's why people spoke english as a 2nd language. Econoimic power brings with it the need to speak the language of who has that power. People were taking Japanese in the '80s because of their rise and so many japanese companies were buying into America. Why is spanish becoming so important as a 2nd language in America? Because latinos have an immense buying power and companies and people want to tap into that market. You can't get a job in local government in the Miami area unless you know spanish.
Difficulty or not, if the Chinese become the pre-eminent economic power is language will become important. The chinese won't be trying to learn english because people need to come to them so they will expect you know their language just like German, French and Dutch companies who come to America must learn english.
Eventually, because of need, there could be some sort of business chinese standard to ease trade. Money will find a way. Swahili was some hybrid mosh posh of languages to make trade easier between the various african tribes and arabs.
English is not an easy language itself. Some could argue it was too difficult to learn it when the British and then America took over as economic powers. English is ofen cited as one of the hardest languages to become fluent in (mandarin even moreso, a point I concede) but people had to learn it to do business with American companies. If I'm an Indian, Brazilian or French company wouldn't it be better to hire someone who can speak and write chinese to conduct my business in China than someone who speaks and writes english? Wouldn't I want an advantage over my competitors in china by having someone who speaks mandarin represent me? I would advertise for chinese speakers and as other companies follow suit those who want to work for those companies would learn chinese. Didn't the same happen with American companies in the '80s who were doing business with Japan? Doesn't the same happen with any company or city or state government in America that wants to communicate or do business with the spanish speaking community? |
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ytide
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Mandarin is very very difficult to learn. Most Chinese do not speak good Mandarin. |
Counter-example #1: Most people of British-ancestry in Britain don't speak in the clear and bland manner of the BBC readers. A cynic would say: "They don't speak good English"!
Counter-example #2: Learn standard Hochdeutsch, then go to Leipzig or rural Swabia, and prepare to understand little or nothing of what they say, even though they are also speaking German.
The fact is, no group of people speaks their own language well. |
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ytide
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| isitts wrote: |
| what about European countries? Are they all going to switch over to Chinese just because China wills it? |
Actually, yes. By the end of this century, and if nothing changes (China's soaring growth, USA and Europe and Japan in neverending "lost decades"...it's simple Mathematics).
Of course, as everyone points out, Yellow Peril fears were about Japan 20-25 years ago, now they are all about China. Same fear, same storyline, and, soon, the same burst-bubble. China will go the way of Japan, soon settling into cozy stagnation. There's just no way it could be otherwise. |
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