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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails, do you defend every single thing that is bad about Korea? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| Steelrails, do you defend every single thing that is bad about Korea? |
I'm an avid fan of Pat Buchanan. Read his columns, usually at least once a month he writes in support of protectionist trade policies.
I'm just saying, all of you arguing for lower prices and more/cheaper foreign goods might want to consider the long-term unintended consequences of such things.
Sure its great if you can get a cheaper computer to watch the NBA on....
What I want is Joe Kim and Jane Park to have well-paying jobs at Samsung, Hyundai, SK, Posco, Hansjin, Lotte, Shinsaegae, etc. etc. so they can afford to send their kids to hagwons and pay tax money to the schools.
A cheap iPhone helps me diddly. For one, I neither have, nor want an iPhone. I don't need the latest computer, and if I wanted cheap cheese I would have stayed home in the midwest.
Now I don't like how some of my choice luxury goods are 3X as much, but I also recognize they are luxury goods.
You can get stuff ridiculously cheap in Thailand and the Philippines. Would you want to grow up in those places? Which country imports labor from the other?
The banana republic economic policies of the US government brought me cheap Chinese goods and a bunch of service jobs. No thanks on that noise. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Did Anyone else notice this from the OP?
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| Needed the computer ASAP for the NBA playoffs this morning |
So before you blame evil Cheabols and bad Korean economic policies, consider that.
So given the responses here, it seems most of us support supply-side economic policies favored by the Bush administration. Cheap consumer goods are what drives an economy.
I don't care if the prices here are higher. I care about Ulsan and Pohang not turning into the unemployment wastelands of Flint, Detroit, and other Rust Belt cities. If higher domestic prices allow Joe Kim Ajosshi to keep on having his job and therefore having the money to send his kid to our Hagwons, thereby providing us with employment, I am all for it.
Cheap Fancy Cell Phones are a luxury. A decent paying job is a necessity.
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| After successfully crushing the aspirations of the people in order to fleece them and live high on the hog |
So how many Korean people lived in abject poverty in 1945? Where did Korea rank economically rank at that point? How many people live in abject poverty now? Where does Korea rank economically now? |
I don't think chaebols are evil, I just think that they are super inefficient. I agree that consumer electronics aren't the most important thing in the world, but the protectionism is going to end up costing Korea in the long run. |
Whereas free-trade has done what to the American Working and Middle Class?
Cheap imported cars (and the companies/unions own stupidity) have turned the place I grew up (SE Michigan) from a giant into a dinosaur. |
The government and the American automotive industry didn't do enough to hedge against foreign competition. The writing on the wall was there for a long time.
Free-trade overall is great. You win some and you lose some. Sorry about Michigan, but we're definitely destroying other countries in other industries (throw in a little driving foreign farmers out of business by exporting our cheap subsidized food).
Biggest problem with America is our education system. This is how we're getting screwed. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I'm an avid fan of Pat Buchanan. Read his columns, usually at least once a month he writes in support of protectionist trade policies.
I'm just saying, all of you arguing for lower prices and more/cheaper foreign goods might want to consider the long-term unintended consequences of such things.
Sure its great if you can get a cheaper computer to watch the NBA on....
What I want is Joe Kim and Jane Park to have well-paying jobs at Samsung, Hyundai, SK, Posco, Hansjin, Lotte, Shinsaegae, etc. etc. so they can afford to send their kids to hagwons and pay tax money to the schools.
A cheap iPhone helps me diddly. For one, I neither have, nor want an iPhone. I don't need the latest computer, and if I wanted cheap cheese I would have stayed home in the midwest.
Now I don't like how some of my choice luxury goods are 3X as much, but I also recognize they are luxury goods.
You can get stuff ridiculously cheap in Thailand and the Philippines. Would you want to grow up in those places? Which country imports labor from the other?
The banana republic economic policies of the US government brought me cheap Chinese goods and a bunch of service jobs. No thanks on that noise. |
You could have saved us all a lot of time and just said "yes". |
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RMNC
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Do you guys also think part of the reason is related to Koreans and their belief that the more expensive something is, the better?
I wonder if foreign companies are purposely jacking up their prices to seem like a better brand. Opinions? |
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southernman
Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Location: On the mainland again
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
Do you guys also think part of the reason is related to Koreans and their belief that the more expensive something is, the better?
I wonder if foreign companies are purposely jacking up their prices to seem like a better brand. Opinions? |
Korea is any exporters wet dream. It's the kid that grew up poor, done well and has to have all the gimmicks and gadgets to prove how successful it is.
You only have to talk to some middle class Koreans to realise they do actually believe the BS that Korean goods sold in Korea are better than they export.
However, the younger generation is a bit more clued on a mid 20's Korean teacher told me last year that he wanted to buy a Korean car that had been manufactured overseas. His reasoning being that it would be a much safer and robust |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Why? Because some will pay the crazy prices. Go figure.
Now the local fruit and veg growers are complaining about the low cost of "foreign imported" fruit and vegs!
The imported items....taxes and duties have to be paid, shipping charges, etc. and yet these imported items are sold cheaper than the local similar items! Local items should be less money!!! So why should the local growers complain!? Why? Because of the HIGH mark ups and the vast amounts of money they make.
I almost never buy korean made items, food, etc. unless I have to especially when the foreign made similar items are cheaper. TV's, electronics...most are made in China! |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
Why? Because some will pay the crazy prices. Go figure.
Now the local fruit and veg growers are complaining about the low cost of "foreign imported" fruit and vegs!
The imported items....taxes and duties have to be paid, shipping charges, etc. and yet these imported items are sold cheaper than the local similar items! Local items should be less money!!! So why should the local growers complain!? Why? Because of the HIGH mark ups and the vast amounts of money they make.
I almost never buy korean made items, food, etc. unless I have to especially when the foreign made similar items are cheaper. TV's, electronics...most are made in China! |
LOL.
Local items shouldn't be cheaper just because they're local, are you insane?
The U.S. is the largest producer of corn and and produces it a lot cheaper than a local farmer can anywhere. The U.S. exports corn because they overproduce for the U.S. market and in turn export the excess. Little farmers can't compete. If you can produce a good for $0.10/lb while a farmer in another country can only do it for $0.90/lb and you are freely able to sell in that other country then taxes, tariffs, shipping ain't gonna make a dent in your margin. You'll drive local producers out of the market until they get enough scale to be able to compete with you cost-wise.
And as for the "because some are willing to pay crazy prices" gem...Look up protectionism on wikipedia, man. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Blame the distribution channels.
Here's how Best Buy in the US works:
Samsung -> Best Buy -> Customer
Here's how the same TV would get to the market in Korea:
Samsung -> Distributor -> Dealer -> Reseller -> Customer
All those guys in the middle are what is jacking up the prices. Online prices are slightly cheaper because the online model goes:
Samsung -> Distributor -> Dealer -> Customer
Believe you me, big companies like Samsung would love to cut out the distributors and dealers. However, the distributors and dealers have a LOT of power and influence. There aren't any huge electronics retailers in Korea like a Best Buy or Circuit City (before bankruptcy), or Frye's because of the channels of distribution. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| Local items should be less money!!! So why should the local growers complain!? Why? Because of the HIGH mark ups and the vast amounts of money they make. |
For 200 years Haiti was self-sufficient, food-production wise. In the 1980s, they lowered their tariffs. American food imports flooded the market. This drove many of their farmers out of business and instantly added to the rise of poor, uneducated, unskilled, and unemployed in their country. Now they DEPEND on imports to feed their country, which in part explains the food riots they suffer from when prices go up. It's the Cliff Notes version, but you can see why countries don't want to let this happen to them. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
Madoka, did you get a DVD or Blu-ray player? |
I bought the DVD for two reasons:
1. All my BR discs are in the U.S., so there is no rush.
2. The price difference would pay for 40% of a roundtrip ticket, so I figured I'd just bring a BR player on my next trip. Heck, I could bring my portable BR player, I suppose, since I don't go to Korea very frequently. |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| So far the discussion has centered on cars and electronics. The prices are ridiculous enough, but what I really don't understand is why low tech things like hairdryers cost so much more than they do back home. A curling iron that is probably 9.99 in the U.S. costs at least twenty or thirty bucks. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Illysook wrote: |
| So far the discussion has centered on cars and electronics. The prices are ridiculous enough, but what I really don't understand is why low tech things like hairdryers cost so much more than they do back home. A curling iron that is probably 9.99 in the U.S. costs at least twenty or thirty bucks. |
The whole structure of this country is set up so normal folks have to sweat it big time day in and day out. From a certain perspective it's good management technique. From another view it justifies doing anything to get the hell out of Korea. Date a Korean girl, and unless she's privileged, you may hear about it when she talks to you about her future 'dream'.
The big guys came close to losing all the marbles 60 years ago. They know there's a lot of discontent simmering under the radar, so they're determined not to let it boil over. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Considering the fact that I'm here for economic reasons (in part) and not back home, I'm not too sure I'm going to go on and on about how the economy here tramples down the average person, unlike back home.
I think in most nations normal folks have to sweat it big time. Those countries that don't are gradually facing the welfare state time bomb they've been building up.
To me the thing about the Korean economy seems to be that it is set up to try and promote employment. People here seem to be fine with long hours and higher prices as long as they have meaningful employment.
I read an article somewhere how the Japanese view their corporations as much responsible for social welfare and maintaining employment as the government (similar to Michigan during the automotive boom). I wonder if Koreans feel the same way? I think they might, hence why they are willing to pay high prices (provided those companies continue to employ them) and why they entrust them with so much power.
I don't think Samsung outsourcing a bunch of its jobs in the name of lower prices is a good idea for the welfare of labor and people here. Sure it helps us, the English Teacher Consumer in the short term, but in the long term? |
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