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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course they are, but they get the point across to a bunch of 3rd graders who've never gone to a hagwan before (many of my students haven't). My coteacher was the one who suggested them, and I was all for it. I told her I'd never heard them, but she explained that it was the only way to explain the concept. I'll go with what she said, because I walk through the halls and get "good morning" and "good afternoon" from my 3rd and 4th graders, on top of the usual "Hello NYC_Gal 2.o teacher!" |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| thegadfly wrote: |
Did you eat rice, Pastor?
A literal translation is not always helpful, and does not always get the feeling or proper usage across. In English we can say goodbye, whether the other person is leaving our presence, or we are leaving that person's presence...in Korean, there are different phrasings...anyeong hee ke-se-yo or anyeong hee ka-se-yo.... |
So the myriad of morning programs on TV and radio are wrong? I mean, I hear 좋은 아침입니다 all the time.
Bottom line: Korean is in trouble. Anything goes these days. How about this gem from the shampoo bottle (and no, it is not in Korean; this is all there is):
데마지 컨트롤 프리미엄 린스
Ridiculous. |
Hail and well-met, fellow traveler! Greetings and salutations on this fine morrow!
Just because one CAN say something, doesn't mean the thing being said is common, natural, or useful in the daily life of a beginning language learner.
Maybe I SHOULD start teaching kids "Hail and well met!" Instead of "Hello!"
Hmmm.... |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| I use pictures, but if I don't give a translation once, they're going to think that "good morning" means morning. Little kids need a bit of translation. |
You mean you can't teach the meaning of 'good' without a translation? |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Of course they are, but they get the point across to a bunch of 3rd graders who've never gone to a hagwan before (many of my students haven't). My coteacher was the one who suggested them, and I was all for it. I told her I'd never heard them, but she explained that it was the only way to explain the concept. I'll go with what she said, because I walk through the halls and get "good morning" and "good afternoon" from my 3rd and 4th graders, on top of the usual "Hello NYC_Gal 2.o teacher!" |
Exactly. Just a few words other than 'hello' to clarify the different times of the day was all that the kids needed. Clearly those expressions wouldn't be as common as 'hello', but they're different ideas.
Reminds me of 'marklar'.
The guy above me (gadfly) sounds awfully proud of himself today. Or should I say, "The gentleman who doth resteth aboveth me hath abundant pride!"  |
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| zappadelta wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I use this when teaching it to my 3rd graders:
Good morning. - 좋은 아침입니다
Good afternoon. - 좋은 낮입니다
Good evening. - 좋은 저녁입니다
Good night. - 잘 자
Also, just use pictures of the sun waking up, lunch time, evening, and the moon. They'll get it. |
These expressions are ridiculous. |
What's wrong with 잘 자? |
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zappadelta
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, was talking especially about these:
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Good afternoon. - 좋은 낮입니다
Good evening. - 좋은 저녁입니다
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Actually, for afternoon we use the word for lunch, and we don't teach evening. I just asked my coteacher for the literal translations to post here to try to help, as opposed to what you've done to contribute.
After explaining the meanings once, we use pictures the rest of the time. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Hasn't anyone heard of a "clock"?
I'm sure the students will understand basic time distinctions, you can use pictures also to help get the meaning across but there is no real need for translation.
Even Koreans use clocks, so the basic concept won't be too foreign to them.
I'm not trying to be rude by the way, but come on people... this is pretty basic. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:51 am Post subject: |
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So they'd think that 7:00am just means morning. We do use clocks, pictures, and mime, but what's so horrible about telling them what it means once? You want to give the kids as many ways to absorb the material as possible. Some are more visual. Some more aural. Some need words.
My kids get it. That's what matters. Good luck, OP. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: |
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You give them the full range of times that constitute "morning",
They don't have to say the times, just get the basic concept.
I am sorry if my post was too harsh, I just hate the over-use of translation
that goes on in Korean schools.
There are times when translation is a hindrance, not a help and I think this is one of them.
As this thread seems to demonstrate, even the adults can't seem to agree on what a good translation would be.
If you want to use direct translations why not;
"Stay in peace" = anyonghee kye sayo
and
"Go in peace" = anyong hee ka sayo
these are closer to the real meaning of the Korean expressions.
How about "Good day" or "peace" "hi/bye" as an aproximation for anyong?
I think you can see, there are no "good" translations for this concept because it doesn't exist in the Korean language. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| PastorYoon wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Of course they are, but they get the point across to a bunch of 3rd graders who've never gone to a hagwan before (many of my students haven't). My coteacher was the one who suggested them, and I was all for it. I told her I'd never heard them, but she explained that it was the only way to explain the concept. I'll go with what she said, because I walk through the halls and get "good morning" and "good afternoon" from my 3rd and 4th graders, on top of the usual "Hello NYC_Gal 2.o teacher!" |
Exactly. Just a few words other than 'hello' to clarify the different times of the day was all that the kids needed. Clearly those expressions wouldn't be as common as 'hello', but they're different ideas.
Reminds me of 'marklar'.
The guy above me (gadfly) sounds awfully proud of himself today. Or should I say, "The gentleman who doth resteth aboveth me hath abundant pride!" |
Proud of myself? You are the one too proud to return a pleasant greeting -- you never even answered me -- have you had rice today?
I didn't get that your co-teacher was having a problem with the English phrases you wanted to teach -- just that she didn't see the difference between the greetings, or that she didn't feel a literal translation of the greetings would have the same feeling/meaning in Korean. I'm with her on that -- I don't let my students call me "teacher," despite the fact that the word for teacher in Korean is a polite form of address...because in English, it isn't. My students call me Mr. thegadfly, or sir, not teacher or thegadfly teacher. They use the proper term in the target language, rather than a cobbled-together literal approximation.... |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
I don't understand why people are using any Korean. Even "Anyeong" is too much.
You need to make routine/daily activity lessons. At least 1 for morning, 1 for afternoon, and 1 for evening. Get pictures of activities for each part of the day. For 4th and 5th graders, you can just do meals of the day if you want more time to do other stuff.
Use phrases with actions "Good morning, let's eat breakfast", "Good afternoon, let's play soccer". Some books use the sun rising and moon (owl sleeping) to show the time of day. |
This post says how it must be done. Greetings is an abstract concept and therefore you have to set the students up by roundabout route.
First do activities, like lifeinkorea says. Though high in content, even low level students pick it up at speed of light. Especially that you can mime the activities. It's fun to teach, with 'I wake up' getting special mention.
Once they know the activities, they'll be thoroughly acquainted with English of morning, afternoon, evening, night.
Then it's plain sailing.
In the final analysis, it doesn't matter if they don't 'get it', they have an enormous amount to learn in other directions. If I found out my language teacher was wasting all my time with fine distinctions in a dead-end point I'd be disgruntled.
That'd be the moment I find that 'hello' covers all possibilities.
Isn't that what 'anyong' is all about? Maybe, OP your co-teacher is one jump ahead of you on this one. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
| PastorYoon wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Of course they are, but they get the point across to a bunch of 3rd graders who've never gone to a hagwan before (many of my students haven't). My coteacher was the one who suggested them, and I was all for it. I told her I'd never heard them, but she explained that it was the only way to explain the concept. I'll go with what she said, because I walk through the halls and get "good morning" and "good afternoon" from my 3rd and 4th graders, on top of the usual "Hello NYC_Gal 2.o teacher!" |
Exactly. Just a few words other than 'hello' to clarify the different times of the day was all that the kids needed. Clearly those expressions wouldn't be as common as 'hello', but they're different ideas.
Reminds me of 'marklar'.
The guy above me (gadfly) sounds awfully proud of himself today. Or should I say, "The gentleman who doth resteth aboveth me hath abundant pride!" |
Proud of myself? You are the one too proud to return a pleasant greeting -- you never even answered me -- have you had rice today?
I didn't get that your co-teacher was having a problem with the English phrases you wanted to teach -- just that she didn't see the difference between the greetings, or that she didn't feel a literal translation of the greetings would have the same feeling/meaning in Korean. I'm with her on that -- I don't let my students call me "teacher," despite the fact that the word for teacher in Korean is a polite form of address...because in English, it isn't. My students call me Mr. thegadfly, or sir, not teacher or thegadfly teacher. They use the proper term in the target language, rather than a cobbled-together literal approximation.... |
No, I haven't had rice today. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
I don't understand why people are using any Korean. Even "Anyeong" is too much.
You need to make routine/daily activity lessons. At least 1 for morning, 1 for afternoon, and 1 for evening. Get pictures of activities for each part of the day. For 4th and 5th graders, you can just do meals of the day if you want more time to do other stuff.
Use phrases with actions "Good morning, let's eat breakfast", "Good afternoon, let's play soccer". Some books use the sun rising and moon (owl sleeping) to show the time of day. |
This post says how it must be done. Greetings is an abstract concept and therefore you have to set the students up by roundabout route.
First do activities, like lifeinkorea says. Though high in content, even low level students pick it up at speed of light. Especially that you can mime the activities. It's fun to teach, with 'I wake up' getting special mention.
Once they know the activities, they'll be thoroughly acquainted with English of morning, afternoon, evening, night.
Then it's plain sailing.
In the final analysis, it doesn't matter if they don't 'get it' , they have an enormous amount to learn in other directions. If I found out my language teacher was wasting all my time with fine distinctions in a dead-end point I'd be disgruntled.
That'd be the moment I find that 'hello' covers all possibilities.
Isn't that what 'anyong' is all about? Maybe, OP your co-teacher is one jump ahead of you on this one. |
The ideas posted here for different methods of explaining it to the students were good. I didn't put any effort into it beyond that - although I could have. It didn't matter to me that they didn't learn it, either. I just thought it was weird that the KO-teacher didn't offer to explain the difference between morning, afternoon, and goodnight. I was using a video book. There were three total vocabulary terms: 'hello', 'good afternoon', and 'good evening'. That was it. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| I don't understand why people are using any Korean. Even "Anyeong" is too much. |
So when you give vocabulary tests, you ask them to draw a picture? |
The premise had nothing to do with testing. If you are giving a test before you teach these concepts, then you are putting the horse before the cart. |
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