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eho
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: Belated Warning For a Bundang Hagwon |
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I've waited a few months before I posted this because I had a decent acquaintance who finished his contract at that place in March.
The place is called Chung-Ho (충호어학원), and is not too far from the Seohyeon station in Bundang. It is/was owned by a middle-aged woman named Jean Song.
It was basically a puppy mill for sucker parents, as most of those places are (pre-purchased curricula, organization by age instead of level, no accountability for student failure, etc.), with a key difference that it condoned sexual harassment from students. I watched a Korean coworker receive some of the worst bullshit from the owner (Jean) who attempted to defend harassing students' behavior and sexual advances. Her basic tactic was to argue that the company's financial ends justified any means of assuring parents' payment.
Since the disciplinary tactic at Chung-Ho was to hide all children's misbehavior from the parents and to justify the poor conduct of the students, my primary disciplinary tactic was to shame the worst-behaved kids until they cried in silence and I could conduct the remainder of my classes without their input or output.
The contract was slightly below average for pay, but the living arrangement that Jean offered was quite shit. I was first placed in an apartment with an entirely mold-covered corner of the unit (the corner where they tucked the bed), which grew to a point that no amount of bleach could knock it down. I was eventually relocated to another place which was decent enough, but not without some bitching from the landlady.
At some point in the year, I received a call from my recruiter (you know, the people who take the money from the employer to place you and then disappear) with a complaint that a parent saw me with a few shirt buttons undone when I stepped outside of a Seohyeon dance club in July. This was exaggerated to all sorts of meaningless accusations. I batted down the recruiter by clarifying the situation, and then threatening to quit and having a few of my Korean friends help me with a translation of the shit conditions of the school and of the recruiter who recommended the place (I made these connections in the U.S.). When I confronted Jean the next day, she said that she had made the call, and that I shouldn't spend my weekends around a stop that was so close to the school. I, of course, blew her off.
To prove that the school was crap, I always kept a copy of their school's entire curriculum, my student evaluation drafts, and full names of every worker, student, and student's parent on my USB drive so that I could use it as leverage against any underhanded actions that I anticipated would follow my departure. Thankfully, that never occurred.
The owner was also so competent as to book my departing flight almost a week after my ARC expired, and told me that I had to leave the unit after my final working day. That left me about ten days of potential homelessness. Luckily, my best friend had scored a much larger apartment around Omokgyo. I only had to process an extension with the immigration office because of her negligence, but I'm going to feel sorry for the next person who may not have the kinds of connections that I had there.
I doubt that there's much of interest, but I figured I could reciprocate a bit after I received some decent information and warnings from this forum. |
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RMNC
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to add that to my "Don't work list". I'm highly considering starting a blacklist site. |
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DaHu
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| What did the hagwon do wrong? |
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RMNC
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| DaHu wrote: |
| What did the hagwon do wrong? |
Did you read the post?
Horrible living conditions, constantly berating him for the way he acted outside of work for incomprehensible reasons, meaningless accusations, lies, etc. Incompetency and making him homeless for over a week. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| RMNC wrote: |
| DaHu wrote: |
| What did the hagwon do wrong? |
Did you read the post?
Horrible living conditions, constantly berating him for the way he acted outside of work for incomprehensible reasons, meaningless accusations, lies, etc. Incompetency and making him homeless for over a week. |
Let's see.
The OP seems to have gotten all of his pay and benefits. If not, these upaid items should be reported.
The OP had problems with his housing and was moved to a better place.
The OP had to leave his apartment on the last day. Standard.
The OP got his airplane ticket, but it was 10 days after their last day of work, but did the OP actually attempt to book a ticket and arrange for the ideal departure date at a reasonable time in advance? If not, it was a lack of initiative by the OP, coupled with the usual lack of planning by all Koreans that caused the departure delay.
Teachers should comport themselves outside of school as representatives of the school. Their behavior outside of the school reflects on the school. This sounds similar to the problem with Charlie Sheen and his TV show. When your behavior is bad enough to be noticed and hurts your employer your should expect problems.
The OP also complains about the poor materials and lack of learning and the failure to report discipline problems, but this is the norm at all public schools, all private schools and all but a handful of the best hogwans.
The OP actually put in a lot of effort to document the bad curriculum, but did the OP do anything to improve it?
The OP lived in paranoid fear of some problems that never came.
The only complaint that has any possible validity is the complaint of sexual harassment of the teachers by the students. This could be serious, but it sounds a bit unusual. Were these adults or children? What were they doing to the poor defenseless teachers? Was this a group thing or one or a few individuals? |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Wow.
No matter how long I stay away from this forum, it always feels like I never left when I do check in.
The OP had a bad experience.
Someone agrees.
Someone disagrees.
Someone interjects a random comment.
Rinse, Wash, Repeat, Ad Infinitum........
I need a nap. |
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eho
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Let's see.
The OP seems to have gotten all of his pay and benefits. If not, these unpaid items should be reported.
The OP had problems with his housing and was moved to a better place.
The OP had to leave his apartment on the last day. Standard. |
This is called even-handedness. I have no reason to lie about inequities or exaggerate my story. If someone is willing to work under someone who will maltreat him in some ways, but not in others, he can submit to it.
Further, I was delayed in pay, but for "clerical errors." This was yet more of this even-handedness that I just mentioned.
| Quote: |
| The OP got his airplane ticket, but it was 10 days after their last day of work, but did the OP actually attempt to book a ticket and arrange for the ideal departure date at a reasonable time in advance? If not, it was a lack of initiative by the OP, coupled with the usual lack of planning by all Koreans that caused the departure delay. |
If I received my pay, I don't want to exaggerate matters beyond real deficiencies. However, months of advanced arrangement is no excuse.
I was not in the position to arrange my own flight plan, but was under the thumb of the owner's stalled arrangement. The owner decided on the flight plan solely by price, not in consideration for my legal departure time frame. Again, that's negligence. You appear that you're willing to tolerate that. Many aren't.
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| Teachers should comport themselves outside of school as representatives of the school. Their behavior outside of the school reflects on the school. This sounds similar to the problem with Charlie Sheen and his TV show. When your behavior is bad enough to be noticed and hurts your employer your [sic] should expect problems. |
Perhaps, but my employer has no entitlement to tell me where or with whom I can associate. Basically, I was verbally restricted from locations that (a) were closer to my home, (b) had legal and non-defacing venues for entertainment, and (c) were not my employer's business.
Also, mere accusation is meaningless, and if there was a problem, my employer could speak with me in public for clarification of any incident. None of that happened. Instead, Jean contacted the recruiter and made them speak their concerns to me when (a) they don't care, (b) can't do anything about it, and (c) were responsible for placement with this ill-functioning place at its outset. I had to confront the owner about her approach.
For further interest, all of her Korean employees and associates who knew her by name, aside from family members and her secretary, referred to her as a "cold bitch," which is an appropriate description.
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| The OP actually put in a lot of effort to document the bad curriculum, but did the OP do anything to improve it? |
I openly met with opposition when I did. Keep in mind that I had a lot of background in language acquisition and instruction and speak three languages myself. This is where you're arguing from lack of knowledge about the OP (me), and also harp on an irrelevancy to the problem.
Also, your argument that crappy extra-curricular schooling is commonplace is mere acquiescence, so it's odd that you would then challenge my willingness to improve on it afterwards.
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| The OP lived in paranoid fear of some problems that never came. |
When you encounter dishonesty in an employer, it's always wiser to assume that more will follow when retaliation against it is more difficult. That's not paranoia.
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| The only complaint that has any possible validity is the complaint of sexual harassment of the teachers by the students. This could be serious, but it sounds a bit unusual. Were these adults or children? What were they doing to the poor defenseless teachers? Was this a group thing or one or a few individuals? |
I see. Where in these details does sexual harassment between students and teachers become defensible?
I hope you've actually thought about this and aren't just being a contrarian. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| eho wrote: |
I see. Where in these details does sexual harassment between students and teachers become defensible?
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But, you have given no details.
Were these adults or children?
Was it a group or individuals?
What did they do that was so terrible?
Did they act in some organized manner or did they act independently?
You have given no details. And this is your only real complaint. |
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eho
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| You have given no details. And this is your only real complaint. |
It doesn't matter if it was an isolated incident with one student or an endemic with every student. Any employer's attempt to defend a customer's sexual harassment of an employee in the motive for profit is a corrupt practice. Go ahead and argue otherwise, and then I'll bother with the details.
To argue "but you've given no details" when the details are irrelevant to the immorality of the practice proves that you really don't know how to argue issues coherently. Also, since you can't answer my question, and are either conceding that such details are irrelevant to justifying the behavior or you just falsely believe that they will aid your weak argument as it stands now, I have no reason to give them to you.
Also, I have a list of valid complaints. You're either a chump who's willing to tolerate more bullshit than other employees would (at which point I would recommend this location for you) or a man who feels that "standard practice" is a justification for shitty behavior (so fall for ad populum argument). People with your attitude will keep Korea in fresh ESL employment.
Last edited by eho on Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| eho wrote: |
| You're a chump. So fall for ad populum argument. |
Ad populum?!!!! Well, now you're not very ad populum with ontheway for calling him a chump, I would think.
I'm wondering how I can work 'ad populum' into conversation, without anyone sniggering and me keeping a straight face.
It'll be a tightrope walk. |
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DaHu
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I never have conversations with people who use so many long-winded words. |
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eho
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Ad populum just refers to an informal fallacy wherein an arguer says that something is justified, true, or good because it is commonplace. You probably wouldn't use it outside of an argument.
If Latin makes you nauseous, it's also called a "bandwagon argument."
Actually, calling someone a chump is ad hominem (not ad populum) unless it's backed by reasoned evidence. Also, sometimes it's acceptable to argue on the basis that something is commonplace, especially if one is making a conclusion about a consensus. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| eho wrote: |
Ad populum just refers to an informal fallacy wherein an arguer says that something is justified, true, or good because it is commonplace. You probably wouldn't use it outside of an argument.
If Latin makes you nauseous, it's also called a "bandwagon argument."
Actually, calling someone a chump is ad hominem (not ad populum) unless it's backed by reasoned evidence. Also, sometimes it's acceptable to argue on the basis that something is commonplace, especially if one is making a conclusion about a consensus. |
Thanks so much for that comprehensive explanation. I feel a little braver now to utilise 'ad populum' at first opportunity. Strike up an argument first, you say?
Just a small word of warning: the mods will be on the constant look-out for you if you openly admit to use of ad hominem. You'd need quite a lot of reasoned argument to determine that ontheway is indeed a chump, or chimpanzee.
Well, maybe not that much, come to think of it.. |
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jonski
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Lol - I would love to see how this argument would pan out down the pub. (Far too many long words)!
If I tried to have discussions like this with my friends back home.......
"SHUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT UP and drink your f��king beer!
Oh how I miss Friday nights in merry old England! |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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