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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| increasing reports of skirmishes in Tripoli |
I haven't come across any references to those. I have seen reports of little flash demonstrations.
I can't help but think that a Qaddafi retreat in Misrata will be a morale boost to the rebels, which would be very welcome. At some point, the regime is just going to shatter (fingers crossed). |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| increasing reports of skirmishes in Tripoli |
I haven't come across any references to those. I have seen reports of little flash demonstrations. |
Well, what i mean is several journalists have reported regular bouts of gunfire from the city every day. It seems to be increasing.
I also forgot to mention that the eastern border with Tunisia has been taken by rebels as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0bhiD8KphA&feature=player_embedded#at=62 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| the eastern border with Tunisia |
Hmmm, there is even more turmoil in North Africa than I thought. 
I saw that about the rebels taking a border crossing. About the same time the government forces took some town in the western mountains. Up till I read that I was under the impression that only Misrata in the west was under dispute. There seems to be more going on in Libya in more places than we hear about. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Get us out of Libya, get out of Afghanistan, get us out of Iraq. |
Any particular reason you left out Pakistan? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Get us out of Libya, get out of Afghanistan, get us out of Iraq. |
Any particular reason you left out Pakistan? |
I'm pretty sure he'd throw that in too, SB. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Errrr. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Bush was president then. Of course the yat was against the war. |
Was for Afghanistan up till recently and that was Bush's war, too. I was ready to get out in '09 and was skeptical but willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt when he decided to stay in. Two years is enough. Now I think it's time to get out.
I thought Iraq was a colossal mistake from the beginning.
I thought going into Libya was a very risky proposition, but worth taking.
If you see a partisan political pattern there, please post promptly. |
The Left didn't view Afghanistan as Bush's war per se, it was the response to 9/11 (the Clintons et al were all openly for it). Iraq was seen as Bush's war. But it was really no different from Afghanistan or Libya (equally as hypocritical, unjust, and full of Orwellian rhetoric to dupe the idiot public). Politicians on both sides of the fake political Left-Right paradigm have always supported all of these wars, despite reading meaningless words from teleprompters stating otherwise. The Clintons and their globalist friends all voted for war in Iraq, and ignorant people like ya-ta still just follow whatever the partisan talking head hacks on the TV tell them. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| the eastern border with Tunisia |
Hmmm, there is even more turmoil in North Africa than I thought. |
Doh!
| Quote: |
| I saw that about the rebels taking a border crossing. About the same time the government forces took some town in the western mountains. Up till I read that I was under the impression that only Misrata in the west was under dispute. There seems to be more going on in Libya in more places than we hear about. |
Yes, Twitter is proving more informative, and what now with Syria kicking off big time Libya is taking second place in the news again, Libyan tweeters continually posting that Al Jazeera needs to keep up! I'm particularly keen on @youssefsan. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Get us out of Libya, get out of Afghanistan, get us out of Iraq.
It is real interesting watching all of the pro-Iraq people reverse their feelings and be against Libya. Also interesting watching the anti-Iraq people reverse and be for going into Libya.
For me, this is a major problem with the Obama Administration. Starting yet another war that'll run on seemingly forever.
However, Mr. '100 years in Iraq' John McCain is loving being in Libya, and seems to have nothing but praise. So, Republican or Democrat, what are you going to do? Anyone you elect is just going to keep on starting more wars. |
Well, I just don't think this is a partisan issue, this war, there are people on all sides, for and against this intervention.
Those against it on the left seem to be basing their argument on the idea that anything the west does is intrinsically suspicious and hegemonic, and those against it on the right seem to be basing their argument in the interests of austerity and this trend towards opposition of anything Obama does.
Those in favour of the intervention on the right, seem to seek retribution for Ghaddaffi's various terrorist murders throughout the years, and those in favour on the left seem to be basing their arguments on humanitarian grounds. That Ya-Ta Boy cautiously supports this intervention means, that, Ya-Ta Boy cautiously supports this intervention. That's all.
As much as people seem to think it is a partisan issue here on this board, people from all sides can form their own ideas about it, they don't need to be linked to any kind of ideology.
Which is actually how this board has been, when at its best. I have tried to find others like it and failed. Tt has been a very good place to discuss matters of interest at certain times in its history, though I seem to remember i have stopped posting in the past because of people getting more involved in the politics of the board than the actual geopolitics of the issues at hand of the day. I found here, at times, very well-read and articulate posters with very different views to my own (from all political platforms), which helped me formulate my opinions and rethink things that i needed to rethink. Joo was great for that, I fundamentally disagreed with him on so many things, but he would read the links I posted, and sent me as many pm's with interesting angles on things, as he did post responses to my ideas on the board. He, and others like Kuros are genuinely interested in the issues at hand and talking about things.
What then is disappointing is to see people still calling each other chickenhawks or pinkos or whatever, but not listening to what other posters have to say. Kind of 'lalalalala I'm not listening - you're a [insert political stereotype]' This is because I think the world has moved beyond forming our opinions based on just arguing the opposite of what our opponents think. That's just dumb. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The Left didn't view Afghanistan as Bush's war per se, it was the response to 9/11 (the Clintons et al were all openly for it). Iraq was seen as Bush's war. But it was really no different from Afghanistan or Libya (equally as hypocritical, unjust, and full of Orwellian rhetoric to dupe the idiot public). Politicians on both sides of the fake political Left-Right paradigm have always supported all of these wars, despite reading meaningless words from teleprompters stating otherwise. The Clintons and their globalist friends all voted for war in Iraq, and ignorant people like ya-ta still just follow whatever the partisan talking head hacks on the TV tell them. |
It's mildly entertaining watching you go through contortions to keep me in the place you have assigned me. Keep up the good work  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| now with Syria kicking off big time |
I'm really concerned about this one, especially this part:
"If events in Syria follow their logical course, we could see the Lebanonization of that country. A proxy war there between Iran and Saudi Arabia would most likely draw in Lebanon and Iraq and probably Israel. About the only force that could prevent or deter it would be a serious, collective threat of Western intervention, the vehicle for which would most surely have to be NATO."
http://www.talleyrand.net/2011.04.24_arch.html#1303674111714
The rest of the post struck me as nonsense, but those sentences seem important. I have no idea about the likelihood, but I can see the potential. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Left didn't view Afghanistan as Bush's war per se, it was the response to 9/11 (the Clintons et al were all openly for it). Iraq was seen as Bush's war. But it was really no different from Afghanistan or Libya (equally as hypocritical, unjust, and full of Orwellian rhetoric to dupe the idiot public). Politicians on both sides of the fake political Left-Right paradigm have always supported all of these wars, despite reading meaningless words from teleprompters stating otherwise. The Clintons and their globalist friends all voted for war in Iraq, and ignorant people like ya-ta still just follow whatever the partisan talking head hacks on the TV tell them. |
It's mildly entertaining watching you go through contortions to keep me in the place you have assigned me. Keep up the good work |
When you have enough gray matter to understand basic reality, you don't need to 'contort' anything... Otherwise you'd know I'm right. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| and this trend towards opposition of anything Obama does |
I read the following article a second time yesterday because I wasn't sure what point the authors were trying to make. I read it again this morning and have finally decided they support intervention, but are complaining the intervention is not strong enough. What does come through loud and clear, even the first time, is that Obama is wrong.
It's clear the writers want a stronger position on Syria, what that would be exactly isn't stated. I guess they want more done in Libya, but what isn't clear either.
I mention this because there is a perspective missing on this thread: Do more and do it faster! I know that perspective is out there somewhere--Senator Graham just said something about cutting off the snake's head yesterday.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-22/obamas-middle-east-head-spin-his-missing-strategy-on-syria-libya-more/ |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| and this trend towards opposition of anything Obama does |
I read the following article a second time yesterday because I wasn't sure what point the authors were trying to make. I read it again this morning and have finally decided they support intervention, but are complaining the intervention is not strong enough. What does come through loud and clear, even the first time, is that Obama is wrong. |
Except for libertarians and Ron Paul supporters (whom you ridiculously and falsely labeled "right wing" earlier), who have condemned it from the start, just as they condemned the Iraq, Afghanistan and all other interventions. The libertarian position is the same today as it was yesterday, and 30 years ago. No phony Liberal flip flops or hypocrisy here. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
It's clear the writers want a stronger position on Syria, what that would be exactly isn't stated. I guess they want more done in Libya, but what isn't clear either. |
That's exactly what I thought, like, "okay, what exactly do you suggest Obama should be doing about Syria?" Ghaddaffi is pretty much on his own, and the Arab league and the Transitional Govt in Libya asked for a no-fly zone, but Syria has potential to have a knock-on effect right throughout the region, it's already causing problems in Lebanon; a wrong move there could trigger an all out war across the Middle East. I think everyone is at a loss as to what to do about Syria, its getting worse by the day.
And they are suggesting Obama was wrong to hand control over to NATO??? That article is weird, but it does highlight how Obama can't seem to do anything right, some saying he shouldn't have got involved, others saying he hasn't done enough?
Last edited by Butterfly on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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