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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: White House Releases President Obama's Birth Certificate |
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| WASHINGTON -- Per his directive, the White House released on Wednesday President Barack Obama's "long form" birth certificate, the document whose absence has long been at the heart of the conspiracy-riddled discussion over Obama's legitimacy to serve as the nation's commander in chief. |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/27/obama-birth-certificate-r_n_854248.html
I am not supporter of President Obama, the dems or modern liberal philosophy more generally, but Good F'ing Lord! Was this even necessary? By necessary, I don't mean that the White House released President Obama's birth certificate; rather, the hysteria relating to the president's place of birth compelled the White House to release it. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I gather the issue was thought to be getting some added traction as a result of Trump's intervention? Maybe Obama thought that now was the time to act, before it got out of hand.
I'm sure the hardcore birthers will find some new angle to play on this. Expect to see a lot of You Tube videos with some self-styled expert in old documents demonstrating how the certificate couldn't possibly be from 1961, etc. It's just gonna make them look desperate, though.
And I have a question: When the article says that the White House has released the document, what does that mean exactly? Was the document flown from Hawaii to D.C. and then displayed at a press conference? Or were reporters given permission to go into the Records office in Hawaii and view it there? Or...?
(Edit: Removed a misplaced quote)
Last edited by On the other hand on Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I'm sure the hardcore birthers will find some new angle to play on this. Expect to see a lot of You Tube videos with some self-styled expert in old documents demonstrating how the certificate couldn't possibly be from 1961, etc. It's just gonna make them look desperate, though. |
I'm not a 'hardcore' birther (I don't really care much either way), but I will point out that that document, which has suddenly appeared out of nowhere after so much ado, is merely a "copy" dated April 25, 2011... Moreover, apparently (I haven't confirmed this however) in 1961 his father's race would have been written as "Negro", not "African" ('African' is not even a race, as it could mean a Caucasian from South Africa, for example). It could very well be a forgery (it wouldn't come as a surprise), and it's hardly a nail in the coffin of the debate...
Moreover, I think the issue was also whether he could have even retained his US citizenship after becoming an Indonesian citizen (which he was registered as when he was a student there). He has a sketchy past no matter how you slice it. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Moreover, apparently (I haven't confirmed this however) in 1961 his father's race would have been written as "Negro", not "African" ('African' is not even a race, as it could mean a Caucasian from South Africa, for example). |
Well, if the White House were going to go to the trouble of forging a birth certificate, I have to assume that they would copy the terminology directly from a genuine 1961 specimen.
But assuming they had a forehead-slapping moment of stupidity and forgot to check the terms before forging a politically pivotal document, I guess what's needed now is for someone to produce another long-form Hawaiian birth certificate from 1961. If it says "negro", we'll know that Obama's is probably a forgery. If it says "African", we'll have to assume, barring any further evidence, that Obama's is real.
Over on the right-wing boards, they're now trying to argue that since Ann Dunham was 18 when she gave birth to Barack Obama, she was too young to confer American citizenship on him, and he is thus by default Kenyan. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: |
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This is funny.
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In a statement after Obama spoke, Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus called the issue a distraction � and yet blamed Obama for playing campaign politics by addressing it.
"The president ought to spend his time getting serious about repairing our economy," Priebus said. "Unfortunately his campaign politics and talk about birth certificates is distracting him from our number one priority � our economy."
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Uh-huh. So it's the Democrats fault that this issue has been such a distraction? |
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Obama could release a video of his birth with the attending nurses dressed in coconut bras and grass skirts dancing the hula and it wouldn't be enough.
If the certificate had said 'Negro' instead of 'African' then the argument would be how they were trying to hide the fact that the father was not a citizen. It goes without saying that when anyone mentions the word 'African' everyone thinks of Charlize Theron rather than Nelson Mandela, for example. (Given the bone-in-the-nose witch doctor thing of recent memory, giving people credit for thinking of Mandela is a stretch.) Sure.
And the stuff about his mom being too young to confer citizenship? What, kids are not full citizens until they reach majority? Since when?
In my opinion, Obama made a mistake issuing the certificate, first because it will do nothing to stop the conspiracy theory, and second because the whole issue makes anyone pushing birtherism look like a fool. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Obama could release a video of his birth with the attending nurses dressed in coconut bras and grass skirts dancing the hula and it wouldn't be enough. |
Ridiculous.
| Quote: |
| If the certificate had said 'Negro' instead of 'African' then the argument would be how they were trying to hide the fact that the father was not a citizen. It goes without saying that when anyone mentions the word 'African' everyone thinks of Charlize Theron rather than Nelson Mandela, for example. (Given the bone-in-the-nose witch doctor thing of recent memory, giving people credit for thinking of Mandela is a stretch.) Sure. |
This makes no sense whatsoever.
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| In my opinion, Obama made a mistake issuing the certificate, first because it will do nothing to stop the conspiracy theory, |
Obama made a mistake not issuing it at the beginning when the very much valid concern was raised. He has also failed to account for his Indonesian citizenship (when he was registered at school under the name everyone knew him as: Barry Soetaro).
| Quote: |
| and second because the whole issue makes anyone pushing birtherism look like a fool. |
We'll see who looks like a fool if the certificate turns out to be a fake. You're talking pretty cocky for someone who clearly doesn't know for sure and is just speculating. That certificate wasn't even an original - it was a copy dated from a few days ago and proves nothing. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Well, if the White House were going to go to the trouble of forging a birth certificate, I have to assume that they would copy the terminology directly from a genuine 1961 specimen.
But assuming they had a forehead-slapping moment of stupidity and forgot to check the terms before forging a politically pivotal document, I guess what's needed now is for someone to produce another long-form Hawaiian birth certificate from 1961. If it says "negro", we'll know that Obama's is probably a forgery. If it says "African", we'll have to assume, barring any further evidence, that Obama's is real. |
This is reasonable - that is, assuming we're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has lied about everything he every promised however, arguably committed treason (becoming the UN Security Council chairman while serving as US President, and defying the Logan Act on a different occasion), and taken the country to war without the permission of Congress (a blatantly impeachable offense), so I for one don't think he can be trusted regardless. But his country of birth, while relevant, is still a side issue. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not a 'hardcore' birther (I don't really care much either way), but I will point out that that document, which has suddenly appeared out of nowhere after so much ado, is merely a "copy" dated April 25, 2011. |
No, you weren't in on that...
Just
-eugenics
-treason
-anything else you want on your burger?
But, sheesh, good thing you weren't a birther. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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He has also failed to account for his Indonesian citizenship (when he was registered at school under the name everyone knew him as: Barry Soetaro).
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Let's see...You're NOT an American even if your birth mother is a native born American, but you ARE an Indonesian because your stepdad is an Indonesian. Is that right? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
He has also failed to account for his Indonesian citizenship (when he was registered at school under the name everyone knew him as: Barry Soetaro).
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Let's see...You're NOT an American even if your birth mother is a native born American, but you ARE an Indonesian because your stepdad is an Indonesian. Is that right? |
It's a question of forfeiting your American citizenship when becoming an Indonesian, and having no record of getting it back prior to becoming president. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
-anything else you want on your burger?
But, sheesh, good thing you weren't a birther. |
Yeah, quit trying to act like you're the arbiter of all things reasonable and sane. All you ever do is try and present your own baseless position as "normal" by ridiculing others; while rarely if ever contributing anything to the actual debate. It's not convincing in the least. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: ... |
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No, I'm just pointing out
You think:
- the Obama administration endorses contaminating our water for the purpose of "eugenics"
-WWII was a corporate scam
-The Civil War was a scam
I'll leave others to determine whether your position is sane. Am I misrepresenting your position in any way? |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Smart political move to stir the right-wing wacko pot and encourage Republican radicals to further marginalize their party from the mainstream, reasonable voter. The Birther movement had been waning until Obama's boys' brainstorm idea to get them talking about it. It is NOT a topic that will win Republicans any new votes in next year's election. |
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