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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| hondaicivic wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| hondaicivic wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| hondaicivic wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
I can't speak for other nationals, but as an American, my country is the most entrepreneurial in the world. . |
Which is why those entrepreneurs will set up shop in Asia and other non bankrupt countries. They are smart people. They know when a country is headed into an abyss of debt.
10 years from now we'll be using 100 dollar bills as toilet paper because they are worth so little.
Anyway back to the topic of employment prospects of ESLers.
It's not easy out there and ESL wonamins have very little to offer any employer in an English speaking country. |
Which entrepreneurs would that be? I haven't seen any start up companies or a silicon valley in asia so far that would rival the US. China, Korea, and all those asian countries can do is just copy. New scientific discoveries and technological innovation will still be in the US. That's a fact. All you American haters can go on hating all you want. The 21st century will still be the American century. |
Your post shows how little you know of the world. The 21st century will be the Dragon century, as in China's, despite that country's problems. |
Name me an Asian Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg or a company like Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Intel in countries like China or Korea or anywhere in Asia. |
So you're saying IT is everything? It's certainly an important field but no longer dominated by the U.S. You're still behind the times, dude.
U.S. poll: 21st century belongs to China
America will play lesser role, most say
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/26/20100226Poll-USChina0226.html |
I didn't say it's everything. It's one of the most important field though that's still dominated by the US. Have you been to silicon valley/San Francisco area lately? Start up companies are popping up everywhere, drawing the best entrepreneurs from around the world. Let's talk about other industry then shall we? Military/Weapons industry, the US still kicks ass. Pharmaceutical industry? Yep, still got it. Agricultural? The US is basically the bread basket of the world. 26% arable land with only 3-5% of the population. China will starve to death when all their arable land turn to desert due pollution. I'll concede to Asia when it comes to the auto industry and consumer electronics. Those things can be easily replicated and made at a low cost, which is what China and Korea is famous for. |
I'll assume most of what you said is wishful thinking since you didn't post links to info backing your claims.
I'm also done with this thread because I don't want to hijack the OP or get in a debate with someone who keeps making claims without backing them up with facts, a far too common practice on this board. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| hondaicivic wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| hondaicivic wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| hondaicivic wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
I can't speak for other nationals, but as an American, my country is the most entrepreneurial in the world. . |
Which is why those entrepreneurs will set up shop in Asia and other non bankrupt countries. They are smart people. They know when a country is headed into an abyss of debt.
10 years from now we'll be using 100 dollar bills as toilet paper because they are worth so little.
Anyway back to the topic of employment prospects of ESLers.
It's not easy out there and ESL wonamins have very little to offer any employer in an English speaking country. |
Which entrepreneurs would that be? I haven't seen any start up companies or a silicon valley in asia so far that would rival the US. China, Korea, and all those asian countries can do is just copy. New scientific discoveries and technological innovation will still be in the US. That's a fact. All you American haters can go on hating all you want. The 21st century will still be the American century. |
Your post shows how little you know of the world. The 21st century will be the Dragon century, as in China's, despite that country's problems. |
Name me an Asian Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg or a company like Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Intel in countries like China or Korea or anywhere in Asia. |
So you're saying IT is everything? It's certainly an important field but no longer dominated by the U.S. You're still behind the times, dude.
U.S. poll: 21st century belongs to China
America will play lesser role, most say
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/26/20100226Poll-USChina0226.html |
I didn't say it's everything. It's one of the most important field though that's still dominated by the US. Have you been to silicon valley/San Francisco area lately? Start up companies are popping up everywhere, drawing the best entrepreneurs from around the world. Let's talk about other industry then shall we? Military/Weapons industry, the US still kicks ass. Pharmaceutical industry? Yep, still got it. Agricultural? The US is basically the bread basket of the world. 26% arable land with only 3-5% of the population. China will starve to death when all their arable land turn to desert due pollution. I'll concede to Asia when it comes to the auto industry and consumer electronics. Those things can be easily replicated and made at a low cost, which is what China and Korea is famous for. |
I'll assume most of what you said is wishful thinking since you didn't post links to info backing your claims.
I'm also done with this thread because I don't want to hijack the OP or get in a debate with someone who keeps making claims without backing them up with facts, a far too common practice on this board. |
Fine dude.
Global Fortune 500
How many are in the USA? How many are in China?
How many Chinese pharm companies can you name? zero? Good job. The USA?
Johnson & Johnson
Pfizer
Merck
Abbot Labatories
Eli lilly
The USA spends more on weapons than the entire world combined, so are you really going to dispute its defense industry? Yeah, I thought not.
I don't mean to be mr. patriotic here. The USA has a ton of problems and certainly could improve. That being said, the fears of China are overblown. It has a lot more problems and poverty than the US has. China could easily become another version of Japan: it looks like it will become the next economic superpower only to seriously falter and become a lot less significant. |
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red_devil
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Job market still seems pretty bad, based on what my friends have told me. Policies and all that are great and all but if the "average guy" doesn't see it, it's irrelevant. |
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oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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The USA spends more on weapons than the entire world combined, so are you really going to dispute its defense industry? Yeah, I thought not.
I congratulate you on your claim to fame. Question is; can you afford these weapons? |
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allovertheplace
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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The Job market in the States is horrible right now. I went to korea in 07 from undergrad and had job offers in the states. I thought one of two years away wouldn't hurt. I was wrong.
Im in an excellent masters program, (just ranked 2nd in the U.S) and 4, yes 4, out of my class of 50 have job offers with graduation in 2 weeks. Careers services has NOTHING to say useful, they are shocked too. Considering roughly half of us wanted to work in the government, and the government cant get there act together, we are all screwed.
I don't fully understand why republicans don't think federal jobs are 'real' jobs when the majority of federal employees are better qualified and willing to accept less pay. Tea party needs to read a book sometime and stop screaming 'they took our jobs!'.
But back on point, prospects are poor. The overqualified thing has gotten old really fast. I thought getting into blank university would have gotten me out of the mud, but alas, here I sit on daves drinking Miller High Life, and smoking overprices cigarettes.  |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| hondaicivic wrote: |
I didn't say it's everything. It's one of the most important field though that's still dominated by the US. Have you been to silicon valley/San Francisco area lately? Start up companies are popping up everywhere, drawing the best entrepreneurs from around the world. Let's talk about other industry then shall we? Military/Weapons industry, the US still kicks ass. Pharmaceutical industry? Yep, still got it. Agricultural? The US is basically the bread basket of the world. 26% arable land with only 3-5% of the population. China will starve to death when all their arable land turn to desert due pollution. I'll concede to Asia when it comes to the auto industry and consumer electronics. Those things can be easily replicated and made at a low cost, which is what China and Korea is famous for. |
I am not sure whether China is good at making automobiles, yet.
But I don't know how you could downplay the impact of auto and consumer electronics industry. They are two of the most critical industries in the world and hence there involved serious competition and money to be made. As such, you are exhibiting total ignorance if you believe that goods from said industries are easy to replicate and can be made at a low cost without any innovations involved. Samsung Electronics having the 2nd most patents awarded in the US after IBM is not an accident. |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
How many are in the USA? How many are in China?
How many Chinese pharm companies can you name? zero? Good job. The USA?
Johnson & Johnson
Pfizer
Merck
Abbot Labatories
Eli lilly
The USA spends more on weapons than the entire world combined, so are you really going to dispute its defense industry? Yeah, I thought not.
I don't mean to be mr. patriotic here. The USA has a ton of problems and certainly could improve. That being said, the fears of China are overblown. It has a lot more problems and poverty than the US has. China could easily become another version of Japan: it looks like it will become the next economic superpower only to seriously falter and become a lot less significant. |
What problems exactly? Be more specific. As for poverty, below is the quote from some article I read:
"China�s share of population living below the poverty line declined from 65 percent at the beginning of economic reform in 1981 to 4 percent in 2007."
Your list of American companies on top of Fortune 500 is not surprising.
But what most experts are worried about is not about the past or even the present, but rather, in the FUTURE. You look at some stats of China's growth in the past 30 years and it is mind boggling. They have a reserve of $3 trillion. Freaking $ 3 trillion! and it is getting worse (or better, depends on whom you ask).
I cringe anytime someone mention about the decline of Japan and infer about China in the same breath. They are nothing alike! It would be akin to some ignorant hick-town Ajudssi commenting about the upcoming bankruptcy of Germany after hearing about the economic breakdown of Portugal and Greece. Any fool knows that Germany is nothing like Portugal or Greece. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
How many are in the USA? How many are in China?
How many Chinese pharm companies can you name? zero? Good job. The USA?
Johnson & Johnson
Pfizer
Merck
Abbot Labatories
Eli lilly
The USA spends more on weapons than the entire world combined, so are you really going to dispute its defense industry? Yeah, I thought not.
I don't mean to be mr. patriotic here. The USA has a ton of problems and certainly could improve. That being said, the fears of China are overblown. It has a lot more problems and poverty than the US has. China could easily become another version of Japan: it looks like it will become the next economic superpower only to seriously falter and become a lot less significant. |
What problems exactly? Be more specific. As for poverty, below is the quote from some article I read:
"China�s share of population living below the poverty line declined from 65 percent at the beginning of economic reform in 1981 to 4 percent in 2007." |
1. Growing inequality. There is a big difference between someone living in Shanghai and someone out in the boondocks.
2. Political opression. There has been a big crackdown that's been steadily been increasing since the summer of 2008.
3. An opaque political system.
4. An aging country. If current demographic trends continue, China will become like Japan is now. Who knows how that will play out.
| Quote: |
Your list of American companies on top of Fortune 500 is not surprising.
But what most experts are worried about is not about the past or even the present, but rather, in the FUTURE. You look at some stats of China's growth in the past 30 years and it is mind boggling. They have a reserve of $3 trillion. Freaking $ 3 trillion! and it is getting worse (or better, depends on whom you ask).
I cringe anytime someone mention about the decline of Japan and infer about China in the same breath. They are nothing alike! It would be akin to some ignorant hick-town Ajudssi commenting about the upcoming bankruptcy of Germany after hearing about the economic breakdown of Portugal and Greece. Any fool knows that Germany is nothing like Portugal or Greece. |
You lambast me about my comparision, yet your first paragraph could have come straight from a news article in 1988 with the difference being the writer talking about Japan instead of China.
Of course Japan and China are different. My point was the USA has historically freaked out about other countries catching up and suprassing the USA. Since WW II, it was the Soviet Union, then Japan, and now China. Yes, I know, they're all very different and they all produced different fears here in the USA. My only point is we're prone to freak out (just like people everywhere). Time will tell of course. And if China surpasses us, so be it. Some country is bound to do it sooner or later.
And lastly, $3 trillion in foreign reserves. Who cares? So China knows how to save, woo hoo! |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
I am not sure whether China is good at making automobiles, yet.
But I don't know how you could downplay the impact of auto and consumer electronics industry. They are two of the most critical industries in the world and hence there involved serious competition and money to be made. As such, you are exhibiting total ignorance if you believe that goods from said industries are easy to replicate and can be made at a low cost without any innovations involved. Samsung Electronics having the 2nd most patents awarded in the US after IBM is not an accident. |
Umm, they are easy to replicate. If they weren't, how is it that one Asian country after the other has become a big player in either one of them (or both)? A lot of electronics have become akin to glorified comodities.
And just because an industry is critical doesn't mean there is serious competition or money to be made. I think that kind of line would make an economist cringe. I mean wheat is pretty damn critical yet there isn't serious money to be made. Conversely oil is also critical and there isn't serious competition (relatively speaking), but there is serious money to be made. |
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| 4. An aging country. If current demographic trends continue, China will become like Japan is now. Who knows how that will play out. |
| Quote: |
| China�s latest census data show the nation�s population is aging rapidly. This means a shrinking labor force which could stutter the nation�s economic growth. Is it time to revise China�s one-child plan? |
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/04/29/asia-today-chinas-one-child-plan-scrutinized/
There was a graph I saw that was very telling. China will have huge problems continuing to be productive as its population shrinks. Keep in mind that while you have a declining population the ratio of retirees to young workers will increase even moreso as the largest portion of the population in an environment of declining population must necessarily be the elderly.
Also, if there is a saving grace for China, it would be its aggregate stock of savings. A large savings base can cushion the blow of any commodity or real estate bust. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| markhan wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
How many are in the USA? How many are in China?
How many Chinese pharm companies can you name? zero? Good job. The USA?
Johnson & Johnson
Pfizer
Merck
Abbot Labatories
Eli lilly
The USA spends more on weapons than the entire world combined, so are you really going to dispute its defense industry? Yeah, I thought not.
I don't mean to be mr. patriotic here. The USA has a ton of problems and certainly could improve. That being said, the fears of China are overblown. It has a lot more problems and poverty than the US has. China could easily become another version of Japan: it looks like it will become the next economic superpower only to seriously falter and become a lot less significant. |
What problems exactly? Be more specific. As for poverty, below is the quote from some article I read:
"China�s share of population living below the poverty line declined from 65 percent at the beginning of economic reform in 1981 to 4 percent in 2007." |
1. Growing inequality. There is a big difference between someone living in Shanghai and someone out in the boondocks.
2. Political opression. There has been a big crackdown that's been steadily been increasing since the summer of 2008.
3. An opaque political system.
4. An aging country. If current demographic trends continue, China will become like Japan is now. Who knows how that will play out.
| Quote: |
Your list of American companies on top of Fortune 500 is not surprising.
But what most experts are worried about is not about the past or even the present, but rather, in the FUTURE. You look at some stats of China's growth in the past 30 years and it is mind boggling. They have a reserve of $3 trillion. Freaking $ 3 trillion! and it is getting worse (or better, depends on whom you ask).
I cringe anytime someone mention about the decline of Japan and infer about China in the same breath. They are nothing alike! It would be akin to some ignorant hick-town Ajudssi commenting about the upcoming bankruptcy of Germany after hearing about the economic breakdown of Portugal and Greece. Any fool knows that Germany is nothing like Portugal or Greece. |
You lambast me about my comparision, yet your first paragraph could have come straight from a news article in 1988 with the difference being the writer talking about Japan instead of China.
Of course Japan and China are different. My point was the USA has historically freaked out about other countries catching up and suprassing the USA. Since WW II, it was the Soviet Union, then Japan, and now China. Yes, I know, they're all very different and they all produced different fears here in the USA. My only point is we're prone to freak out (just like people everywhere). Time will tell of course. And if China surpasses us, so be it. Some country is bound to do it sooner or later.
And lastly, $3 trillion in foreign reserves. Who cares? So China knows how to save, woo hoo! |
QFT. |
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allovertheplace
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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All this China talk is waaaaaay off topic.
But I'll chime in because I can. China has built their economy largely due two major factors, cheap labor and hacked technology.
The cheap labor has to end at some point, and the hacked technology will catch up to them. I personally think its one reason why they wont unload U.S. bonds. They run their government on cracked software packages, run their tech firms based on copyright infringed goods, and continue to pay significantly lower wages than the west.
Im an not saying China will fall but we must keep the reasons why China boomed in mind. Korea boomed on the backs of a generation who decided to work hard for next to nothing for the betterment of the next gen, and the financial and military support of the U.S. Well China either has to start paying higher wages (possibly leading to widespread social problems), or investing billions upon billions into R and D.
Tremendous infrastructure projects provide jobs and growth, they are not the engine of consistant growth. Those projects stimulate the economy, they do not provide for lasting growth.
Oh, and there is that whole currency manipulation thing. I am not a trump china hater but there is no fricken way the RMB shouldn't be worth more. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| allovertheplace wrote: |
Im in an excellent masters program, (just ranked 2nd in the U.S) and 4, yes 4, out of my class of 50 have job offers with graduation in 2 weeks. Careers services has NOTHING to say useful, they are shocked too. Considering roughly half of us wanted to work in the government, and the government cant get there act together, we are all screwed.
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When I graduated from my masters program in 2009, about the same percentage of my classmates had job offers (thankfully I was one of them). Happy to say that most of my classmates now have legit, decent jobs. While the government had a hiring boom in '09 (and maybe 2010, don't know), most of those classmates were hired by NGOs and the private sector.
Anyway, point being I would wager you and your classmates will be in OK shape within 12 months. Not ideal, but better than a lot of other Americans. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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From personal experience, I can tell you that the job market is very difficult right now (in western Canada). There are literally hundreds of applicants for many jobs.
And, many employers do not see the value in teaching abroad, unfortunately. They know that teaching abroad is a fairly common and easy job to get nowadays. It is not quite the unique experience that it once was.
If you are trying to break into a new field other than teaching, it will be difficult without some sort of education or experience to back up your application. |
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southernman
Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Location: On the mainland again
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| hondaicivic wrote: |
| Yep, still got it. Agricultural? The US is basically the bread basket of the world. 26% arable land with only 3-5% of the population. China will starve to death when all their arable land turn to desert due pollution. |
You're joking right. The US farmer still relies on Government subsidies and agressive protectionism on imports to even survive. So how can it be the breadbasket of the world when its still subsidised by Central Government. Without both forms of Government assistance the average American farmer would be in trouble.
Although, grain exporters do sell a huge ammount overseas, how much money to them is it really worth? I'm sure they would like to be earning a lot more for the long hours and effort they put into it.
As for jobs back home, it all comes down to your qualifications and work experience as others have said it's not the time to be a newly graduated Arts Degree job seeker |
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