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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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 Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Excellent, excellent letter. Glad he mentioned the Chechens also. I've felt at times that the BRIC countries, particularly China, have been hoping Ghaddaffi wins this, as they will not be favoured by the new transitional government for the stance they have taken and would be first in line for lots of cheeky oil if Muammer were to stay.
Putin is a pillock. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| No reasonable person is suggesting that Western nations aren�t motivated to some extent by selfish interests in Libya, but please do not pretend that you [Vladimir Putin] have the interests of the Libyan people at heart, or that your opposition to international action against the Libyan regime is not equally motivated by Russian economic interests in the country. |
Well written. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
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What an idiotic letter. By that reasoning, the West should intervene in every country where the leader has violated citizens' rights. (How about starting with the USA?) |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
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What an idiotic letter. By that reasoning, the West should intervene in every country where the leader has violated citizens' rights. (How about starting with the USA?) |
When those citizens set up to fight that regime, yes, the west (and other countries) should support those citizens. if sometimes that means direct intervention, so be it.
I don't see too many Americans fighting our government nor do I see our government sending troops into large cities to put down a rebellion. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
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What an idiotic letter. |
Did you read the whole letter? It is written by a Libyan, who appreciates the international intervention in his country. I'll take his perspective before anyone's. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
Excellent, excellent letter. Glad he mentioned the Chechens also. I've felt at times that the BRIC countries, particularly China, have been hoping Ghaddaffi wins this, as they will not be favoured by the new transitional government for the stance they have taken and would be first in line for lots of cheeky oil if Muammer were to stay.
Putin is a pillock. |
My take is that Russia and China, along with everyone else, thought Qaddafi was toast early on, but then he made a comeback only because he had an organized military. They didn't veto the intervention because Libya offered the chance of being another treasury-depleting quagmire for the West. I suspect that neither Russia nor China care what kind of government Libya has, but dictatorship is not objectionable to them. If Qaddafi goes, they can say to the new government, "See, we didn't veto the intervention. Let's make a multi-billion dollar weapons deal." If Qaddafi stays, they can say, "Look at all those criticisms we made of the awful imperialist crusaders. Let's make a multi-billion dollar weapons deal."
I don't know if I would go so far as to say that Putin is a pillock, since I have absolutely no idea what a pillock is (but it doesn't sound good). If it's anything like feceshead I could go along with it. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
|
What an idiotic letter. By that reasoning, the West should intervene in every country where the leader has violated citizens' rights. (How about starting with the USA?) |
When those citizens set up to fight that regime, yes, the west (and other countries) should support those citizens. if sometimes that means direct intervention, so be it.
I don't see too many Americans fighting our government nor do I see our government sending troops into large cities to put down a rebellion. |
You mean you haven't noticed any erosion of rights in the US over the last ten years? Have you been asleep all that time? How about sending riot police to crush an end-of-year college block party, for starters? |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
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What an idiotic letter. |
Did you read the whole letter? It is written by a Libyan, who appreciates the international intervention in his country. I'll take his perspective before anyone's. |
OK, then you'll take this Libyan woman's perspective, too then, right? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You mean you haven't noticed any erosion of rights in the US over the last ten years? Have you been asleep all that time? How about sending riot police to crush an end-of-year college block party, for starters? |
That's a remarkably poor example of the loss of rights over the last 10 years. In my day, if you hadn't been chased by the riot police, you really couldn't say you'd been to college at all. And yes, that was somewhat more than 10 years ago. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You mean you haven't noticed any erosion of rights in the US over the last ten years? Have you been asleep all that time? How about sending riot police to crush an end-of-year college block party, for starters? |
That's a remarkably poor example of the loss of rights over the last 10 years. In my day, if you hadn't been chased by the riot police, you really couldn't say you'd been to college at all. And yes, that was somewhat more than 10 years ago. |
OK, this did not happen to you 11 years ago though.
Last edited by Abe Scrap on Thu May 05, 2011 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
|
What an idiotic letter. By that reasoning, the West should intervene in every country where the leader has violated citizens' rights. (How about starting with the USA?) |
When those citizens set up to fight that regime, yes, the west (and other countries) should support those citizens. if sometimes that means direct intervention, so be it.
I don't see too many Americans fighting our government nor do I see our government sending troops into large cities to put down a rebellion. |
You mean you haven't noticed any erosion of rights in the US over the last ten years? Have you been asleep all that time? How about sending riot police to crush an end-of-year college block party, for starters? |
Dude, you know that's nothing like what's going on in Libya (or Syria, yemen, et al). Apples and oranges. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Dude, you know that's nothing like what's going on in Libya (or Syria, yemen, et al). Apples and oranges. |
Dude, rights violations are not going to be identical in all countries. And did you note that some people were calling the block party a "riot," even though there was no violence until the pigs showed yup? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Dude, you know that's nothing like what's going on in Libya (or Syria, yemen, et al). Apples and oranges. |
Dude, rights violations are not going to be identical in all countries. And did you note that some people were calling the block party a "riot," even though there was no violence until the pigs showed yup? |
Dude, you are having a serious problem with scale. A very serious problem.
If you can't distinguish between decades of repression by dictators like Qaddafi and the police putting down public displays of drunkenness, then you are risking making yourself seem silly. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Dude, you know that's nothing like what's going on in Libya (or Syria, yemen, et al). Apples and oranges. |
Dude, rights violations are not going to be identical in all countries. And did you note that some people were calling the block party a "riot," even though there was no violence until the pigs showed yup? |
Dude, you are having a serious problem with scale. A very serious problem.
If you can't distinguish between decades of repression by dictators like Qaddafi and the police putting down public displays of drunkenness, then you are risking making yourself seem silly. |
YES. Exactly. You insult those putting their lives on the line to imrpove their welling-being by comparing them to some drunken yahoos. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From time to time there has been mention of Russia's role in this situation. Not long ago, Putin put out a statement. This response, written by a Libyan-American and posted on the Libyan Youth Movement: Feb 17 site deserves equal time:
Sovereign Libya: A Letter to Vladimir Putin (May 4, '11)
by Najla Abdurrahman
|
What an idiotic letter. |
Did you read the whole letter? It is written by a Libyan, who appreciates the international intervention in his country. I'll take his perspective before anyone's. |
OK, then you'll take this Libyan woman's perspective, too then, right? |
Ah here is an opportunity for you, really. Compare the well-crafted letter from a Libyan, free to say whatever he wants as he lives in the free west, and a Libyan woman surrounded by green flags in Tripoli, a city in which hundreds of people have gone missing for expressing their views and decide whose opinion you think is more valid. If you approach this objectively, it may well have a knock-on effect and possibly alter the other perspectively-challenged views you hold. |
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