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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Eddy24 wrote: |
| It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 |
Sure, the US gives $3 billion a year to Israel.
But it spends $15-20 Billion on defending South Korea.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-49.html
...a country that is not only fully capable of defending itself, but which simply does not offer the benefits that Israel does.
What exactly does the US get out of its costly alliance with Korea? Boatloads of Korean cars to undercut the American automotive industry, and mass demonstrations against America and her exports.
| Quote: |
| Bottom line is I don't think the US should be giving military or economic aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or any other corrupt and brutal government |
Why not then cut aid in order of least deserving first?
The first states to lose dollars would be Israel's enemies. A bunch of thugs whose human rights violations are far worse than Israel. Can you at least agree on this point? |
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| A bunch of thugs whose human rights violations are far worse than Israel. Can you at least agree on this point? |
Saudi Arabia in particular has horrendous human rights violations on its own people but I am of the opinion that the US should not be funding any sides. Whether that be Israel or Saudi Arabia or anyone else regardless of the number human rights violations. Totting them up and saying "oh but they are worse" is ludicrous because its all far too much. Israel mostly does it to Palestinian and other Arab countries. Saudi Arabia mostly to its own people, although they just went into Bahrain in order to help them halt the anti-government uprisings. It's all horrendous and the US should not be funding them at all. I would also argue that the US funding Israel is largely driven for the benefit of special interests (arms sales, political zionism etc...), but in some ways is actually going against the interests of the general Israeli people because it is in fact putting them in a position where they are under more of a threat.
Oh, and I think the Americans should move out of South Korea too. The US gives helps them with defence. As you say they also subsidise their economy and I agree that it's bad. It might seem good for the Korean economy and it is to an extent but in reality only benefits the big corporations of Korea and disadvantages industry in the US. South Korea is big enough to stand on its own now. Despite the US help they have worked incredibly hard to come to where they are now given that they were in poverty at the end of the Korean war.
South Korea can defend itself and the sheer number of American bases and troops is unwarranted. I'm sure many will disagree with me on this one here. The reason North Korea keeps ramping up their nuclear rage is because they have a massive US presence on their border and just look at the number of countries the US has got involved with. It's perfectly rational for North korea to at least try to act tough in order to stop any attack on them. The US and South Korea also provokes them by staging military exercises very close to the North korean border and disputed waters. Why do they need to stage exercises there? How many times to you have to wave a stick at the dog before it bites? In any case, I believe that South Korea should be moving to towards less US influence and be able to take control of their own matters. They are a rich country now. but the US doesn't give a crap. I mean they have 700 bases around the world and are still in japan and Germany. It will only end when the US runs out of money. That's how most empires end and we're starting to see that now. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Eddy24 wrote: |
| It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 |
Sure, the US gives $3 billion a year to Israel.
But it spends $15-20 Billion on defending South Korea.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-49.html
...a country that is not only fully capable of defending itself, but which simply does not offer the benefits that Israel does.
What exactly does the US get out of its costly alliance with Korea? Boatloads of Korean cars to undercut the American automotive industry, and mass demonstrations against America and her exports.
| Quote: |
| Bottom line is I don't think the US should be giving military or economic aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or any other corrupt and brutal government |
Why not then cut aid in order of least deserving first?
The first states to lose dollars would be Israel's enemies. A bunch of thugs whose human rights violations are far worse than Israel. Can you at least agree on this point? |
South Korea only has one enemy - North Korea. The Israelis are enemies with most Arab states, many Asian ones, and many European states have sharply criticized Israel, and the same for much of Latin America. Thus, the US is backing an ally that has so many enemies. Thus, the risks are rather high. What risks are there with North Korea? North Korea doesn't want to go to war with South Korea. It's just posturing. Israel, however, wants to expand its borders and settlements in violation of the Road Map. We are told a government that includes Hamas must honor previous agreements, but Israel's own government doesn't honor previous agreements. It needs to change or it's going to be a serious liability to the United States and to itself. Many American Jews are also fed up with the very right wing moves of the state and want peace between both sides. |
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Yeah in many ways the Israeli govt is just as bad as Hamas.
BY the way Israel helped create Hamas in the first place in order to destabilise a strong secular PLO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPwNk0CJSiY |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Israel needs to change its electoral system so small, extremist parties can't be so influential in government policy. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior, you're obviously not American, so where are you from and why are you so obsessed about my country's money going to Israel? Can you give to Israel instead of me, or can you get your country to give the money instead of mine, since my country is many trillions of dollars in debt and cannot afford it? |
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| Junior, you're obviously not American, so where are you from and why are you so obsessed about my country's money going to Israel? Can you give to Israel instead of me, or can you get your country to give the money instead of mine, since my country is many trillions of dollars in debt and cannot afford it? |
Man America wastes so much money on trying to be the policemen of the world and it is no more wasted than on Israel. I'm actually not American, i'm British but we are pretty much the same these days when it comes to foreign policy. Let;s be honest if the US wants us to go to war, we'll follow! We also have an Israeli lobby which pushes us to bend over for them. No other nation in the world could, other than israel, could get away with having lobbies pushing the interests of that nation over the home nation. But because religion and powerful special interests are involved it's ok. Imagine a Saudi Arabian lobby  |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Eddy24 wrote: |
| Man America wastes so much money on trying to be the policemen of the world and it is no more wasted than on Israel. I'm actually not American, i'm British but we are pretty much the same these days when it comes to foreign policy. Let;s be honest if the US wants us to go to war, we'll follow! We also have an Israeli lobby which pushes us to bend over for them. No other nation in the world could, other than israel, could get away with having lobbies pushing the interests of that nation over the home nation. But because religion and powerful special interests are involved it's ok. Imagine a Saudi Arabian lobby |
With Zionists, it's always someone else's blood and someone else's money that needs to be sacrificed. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| .since my country is many trillions of dollars in debt and cannot afford it?. |
Oh look who it is. If it ain't Jew-hating pornographer Number 1.
hadn't you better tell Obama to save some bucks and "make porn, not war?". 
| Eddy24 wrote: |
| Imagine a Saudi Arabian lobby |
ugh. With so many brainwashed guys like you nowadays we're already halfway there. |
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Eddy24
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
| .since my country is many trillions of dollars in debt and cannot afford it?. |
Oh look who it is. If it ain't Jew-hating pornographer Number 1.
hadn't you better tell Obama to save some bucks and "make porn, not war?".
| Eddy24 wrote: |
| Imagine a Saudi Arabian lobby |
ugh. With so many brainwashed guys like you nowadays we're already halfway there. |
yes Junior, I love the Saudi regime (sarcasm). How could I not if I criticise Israel??? And you call me brainwashed? POT. KETTLE. BLACK. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
| .since my country is many trillions of dollars in debt and cannot afford it?. |
Oh look who it is. If it ain't Jew-hating pornographer Number 1.
hadn't you better tell Obama to save some bucks and "make porn, not war?".
| Eddy24 wrote: |
| Imagine a Saudi Arabian lobby |
ugh. With so many brainwashed guys like you nowadays we're already halfway there. |
Really you just make yourself look like a complete loon when you equate criticism of Israel with Saudi advocacy. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Eddy24 wrote: |
| yes Junior, I love the Saudi regime (sarcasm). How could I not if I criticise Israel??? And you call me brainwashed? POT. KETTLE. BLACK. |
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Really you just make yourself look like a complete loon when you equate criticism of Israel with Saudi advocacy. |
Its hardly suprising you guys don't get it when someone is speaking in jest.
But what we can say (in seriousness) is that the classic anti-semitism that you and others on here have demonstrated is very similar to the Saudi media and education system. You sound almost identical at times.
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| A whole range of anti-Jewish commentary and depictions in the Saudi media - the blood libel accusation, denial of the Holocaust, and Jewish control over the media and American policy - have gone unanswered by Saudi religious, political and community leaders. As in the past, criticism of Israeli policy is infused with comparisons between Israelis and Nazis and other forms of blatant anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitic propaganda from western extremists, such as David Duke and Mark Weber, has also been reprinted in a number of Saudi newspapers. |
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/saudi_as_print.asp |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Why are you so ashamed of yourself and so embarrassed about where you're from, Junior? The rest of us, despite what criticisms we may have about our homelands, go ahead and identify our nationalities. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| Why are you so ashamed of yourself and so embarrassed about where you're from, Junior? The rest of us, despite what criticisms we may have about our homelands, go ahead and identify our nationalities. |
I believe he's mentioned in the past he's British. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Eddy24 wrote: |
| yes Junior, I love the Saudi regime (sarcasm). How could I not if I criticise Israel??? And you call me brainwashed? POT. KETTLE. BLACK. |
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Really you just make yourself look like a complete loon when you equate criticism of Israel with Saudi advocacy. |
Its hardly suprising you guys don't get it when someone is speaking in jest.
But what we can say (in seriousness) is that the classic anti-semitism that you and others on here have demonstrated is very similar to the Saudi media and education system. You sound almost identical at times.
| Quote: |
| A whole range of anti-Jewish commentary and depictions in the Saudi media - the blood libel accusation, denial of the Holocaust, and Jewish control over the media and American policy - have gone unanswered by Saudi religious, political and community leaders. As in the past, criticism of Israeli policy is infused with comparisons between Israelis and Nazis and other forms of blatant anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitic propaganda from western extremists, such as David Duke and Mark Weber, has also been reprinted in a number of Saudi newspapers. |
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/saudi_as_print.asp |
So anyone who believes the US gives Israel too much money is anti-semitic? |
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