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madoka

Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: An eye for an eye . . . literally |
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An Iranian man found guilty of using acid to blind a woman who refused to marry him now will have the same done to him as punishment � and she'll be the one who carries out the sentence, her lawyer says.
The lawyer said that at noon Saturday, Ameneh Bahrami would drop acid in both eyes of Majid Movahedi, 30, after he is rendered unconscious at a judiciary hospital in Tehran, The Guardian newspaper reported, citing Iranian media.
Bahrami was disfigured and blinded in 2004 when Movahedi threw acid in her face as she returned home from work, the Guardian reported. After Movahedi admitted to the attack, Bahrami asked a court to order an eye-for-an-eye retribution, under the Islamic law system of "qisas."
The court did so in November 2008, calling for five drops of sulfuric acid to be placed in each of his eyes.
Iranian officials have endorsed the sentence, hoping to stop an increase in acid attacks, the Guardian said.
The Washington Post reported that human rights groups and the British government had asked Bahrami to pardon Movahedi but that she had refused.
�I have been receiving numerous phone calls from Iranian human rights organizations based abroad,� Bahrami told the Post in a phone interview Friday. �They are pressuring me to pardon him. But I won�t do that.�
Iran's government helped Bahrami, who has an electronics degree and worked in a medical engineering company before the attack, moved to Spain, where she underwent a series of unsuccessful operations.
She briefly recovered half vision in her right eye in 2007 but an infection blinded her again, the Guardian said.
Bahrami, now in her 30s, wrote a book about her ordeal, �Eye for an Eye,� which was published in Germany.
Pics at link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43029928/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/ |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:22 am Post subject: |
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I think the "eye for an eye" concept of punishment makes a lot more sense than imprisonment.
Prison just creates massive costs for the state and eliminates the productivity of the convict. Then it results in more crime when they release an unemployable and likely homeless citizen out onto the streets after years or decades of imprisonment. |
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jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:39 am Post subject: |
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comm wrote: |
I think the "eye for an eye" concept of punishment makes a lot more sense than imprisonment.
Prison just creates massive costs for the state and eliminates the productivity of the convict. Then it results in more crime when they release an unemployable and likely homeless citizen out onto the streets after years or decades of imprisonment. |
Don't you think permanently blinding someone will also "eliminate the productivity of the convict"? It takes a while to learn how to live with blindness and it limits what kind of work you can do to a great degree. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
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jrwhite82 wrote: |
Don't you think permanently blinding someone will also "eliminate the productivity of the convict"? It takes a while to learn how to live with blindness and it limits what kind of work you can do to a great degree. |
Absolutely, but I think that the net benefit for the victim and harm to the general population (through costs of punishment) would both be better with eye-acid than imprisonment. |
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jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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comm wrote: |
jrwhite82 wrote: |
Don't you think permanently blinding someone will also "eliminate the productivity of the convict"? It takes a while to learn how to live with blindness and it limits what kind of work you can do to a great degree. |
Absolutely, but I think that the net benefit for the victim and harm to the general population (through costs of punishment) would both be better with eye-acid than imprisonment. |
I'll agree with that about the economic aspect of it because it would save money. Would you endorse handing out death penalties to all the people who are serving life sentences? Because it would save a lot of money (provided they didn't get drawn out for years and multiple reviews while the inmate sits on death row for years and years eating up all the savings), and let's face it. They're not getting out anyway.
I know the guy didn't really care how cruel he was being when he threw acid in the woman's face. But don't you think the rest of people in society should uphold high standards than your most violent criminals? |
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recessiontime

Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 3:17 am Post subject: |
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high standards?
There is very little difference between justice and revenge. The former is simply done by a greater number of people. It's been clearly established that jailed convicts learn nothing in prison other than coming out the other side as harder criminals than before. There really is no solution other than the subjective ones we create. There is no way at the moment to reprogram the brains of offenders so we've resorted to long time outs in prisons. |
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jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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recessiontime wrote: |
high standards?
There is very little difference between justice and revenge. The former is simply done by a greater number of people. It's been clearly established that jailed convicts learn nothing in prison other than coming out the other side as harder criminals than before. There really is no solution other than the subjective ones we create. There is no way at the moment to reprogram the brains of offenders so we've resorted to long time outs in prisons. |
I fully agree that the US prison system is failing. Many gangs use it as Crime University. You go in to do time so you can learn from older criminals who are regarded like professors. Than the young guys come out and commit more crimes.
On the other hand I used to work with a few guys who did some time. And they swore they never wanted to go back and straightened themselves out and stopped dealing. So it does work with some people.
But don't you think burning someone's eyes out is a lot more cruel than going to prison?
Honestly, I don't know how I feel about the eye thing, if it's fair or not. But it is awfully harsh. |
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recessiontime

Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
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^
Are you suggesting we just put a guy in jail for blinding someone and destroying their life? As harsh as it is I find that what happened to him was proportional to the damage he did.
I honestly don't find our way of retribution to make any sense. We put people in jail for stealing from a cash register but white collar criminals stealing 10's and 100's of millions get off with a fine. A person knowingly gives AIDs to several people and gets 6 months of jail time. I could go on and on. Sometimes I find our way of doing things stranger and absurd. |
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jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: |
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I agree there is a large degree of disproportion prevalent in our justice system. And that it is failing to a large degree. But I don't think burning peoples' eyes out is the right answer. So to answer your question, yes, given the two choices, putting him in jail is a better alternative to burning his eyes out. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Ask the Chinese - they know how to make a yuan off their prisoners. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: |
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recessiontime wrote: |
high standards?
There is very little difference between justice and revenge. The former is simply done by a greater number of people. It's been clearly established that jailed convicts learn nothing in prison other than coming out the other side as harder criminals than before. |
You're conflating the goal of rehabilitation with the somewhat different goal of retribution.
The US prison system does have a poor record when it comes to rehabilitation. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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This "eye for an eye" punishment is barbaric and evil.
The fact that the US system has failed in many ways is no justification to endorse a disgusting and evil system of punishment practiced by barbarians. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote: |
This "eye for an eye" punishment is barbaric and evil.
The fact that the US system has failed in many ways is no justification to endorse a disgusting and evil system of punishment practiced by barbarians. |
Qisas is the doctrine that measures a non-Muslim's life as one-half, or one-third (depending on the school), of that of a Muslim.
Wiki Qisas
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Differences exist over whether equal retaliation can be applied to Muslims who have murdered unbelievers. In the hadith of Bukhari, Ash-Sha'bi narrates that Abu Juhaifa said that "no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever)".[7] Three of the four schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence thus expressly prohibit capital punishment for Muslims who have murdered unbelievers; only allowing the payment of blood money. For the Maliki and Hanbali schools of jurisprudence, the value of a non-Muslim's life is worth one-half the value of a Muslim's life; in the Shafi'i school, the lives of Jews and Christians are worth one-third of those of Muslims, and the lives of Zoroastrians are worth one-fifteenth.[8][9] The Hanafi school allows capital punishment for Muslims who have murdered unbelievers, citing a hadith wherein Muhammad ordered the execution of a Muslim who killed a dhimmi. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote: |
This "eye for an eye" punishment is barbaric and evil. |
Permitting the victim of an offence to have a say as to what fate shall meet the perpetrator of the offence is only virtuous.
�They are pressuring me to pardon him. But I won�t do that.� |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote: |
This "eye for an eye" punishment is barbaric and evil.
The fact that the US system has failed in many ways is no justification to endorse a disgusting and evil system of punishment practiced by barbarians. |
...practiced by barbarians...you are still referring to the US here, yes?
The whole OBL revenge murder has many agreeing with you. |
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