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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Personally, I would find both A and D valid depending on what someone is trying to say. Am I wrong in thinking that? I do not like the question.
Depending on what the intent is, I would choose either A or D. Since the intent of the person speaking is not clear, then it's a poorly worded question, IMHO. |
You are wrong for thinking that. 
The sentence says "Our goals are ..." and then it lists the goals. As FMPJ said, it has to parallel "to serve" (i think this is kind of an awkward explanation, but I get what he means). If you put the continuous in there, then you cannot have the second clause on the sentence starting with "to serve..." It just doesn't work. If you want, I'll pull out my Practical English Usage and find a citation for you? I see where you're coming from, and in a colloquial way, I could hear someone saying it, but it would sound awkward to me. |
I revised what I wrote after thinking about it. I would, perhaps, in casual speech hear such things. I later wrote, but somehow it didn't get posted where I said A only made sense grammatically. In spoken American English, you might say D, too, as the OP thought. I can say I've heard such things. It might be somewhat awkward for some.
At any rate, goals don't carry out actions....
When I took a second look at it, my view was that goals can't be continuing anything in that context. Persons as agents can continue in that context. The goals can't carry out the action.
Last edited by Adventurer on Mon May 16, 2011 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Sounds ok to me too but I think a grammar book would say otherwise |
Any idea why? I can't think of anything... |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| "Our goals are making money and dating hot chicks." |
Are "goals" really able to make money and date hot chicks? I don't think so, but your friends may be able to. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Any idea why? I can't think of anything... |
Maybe because, like meangradin, people might confuse it with the present continuous form of the verb |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe because, like meangradin, people might confuse it with the present continuous form of the verb |
Exactly! My guess is that by using an infinitive over a gerund, the writer avoids confusion: "My goal is to make money..." is much clearer than "My goal is making money..." |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, "avoiding confusion" doesn't work in a TOEIC environment. The fact that it's legitimate to say either...
My goal is to make money.
...or...
My goal is making money.
...means it's a poorly written test item. The parallelism in the originally posted item kind of locks it out but... |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
Unfortunately, "avoiding confusion" doesn't work in a TOEIC environment. The fact that it's legitimate to say either...
My goal is to make money.
...or...
My goal is making money.
...means it's a poorly written test item. The parallelism in the originally posted item kind of locks it out but... |
Actually, the question is fine the way it is.
If you apply SAT, GRE standards to it, then choosing the best answer is the goal.
There may be more than one right answer, so being able to understand the subtleties in meaning would be important.
In this case, the infinitive is the best choice....it avoids unnecessary confusion, and it follows the rule of parallelism.
Personally, I am not a fan of this type of test question either. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Actually, the question is fine the way it is.
If you apply SAT, GRE standards to it, then choosing the best answer is the goal. |
But it's not on the SAT or GRE. Or even the TOEFL... |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Actually, the question is fine the way it is.
If you apply SAT, GRE standards to it, then choosing the best answer is the goal. |
But it's not on the SAT or GRE. Or even the TOEFL... |
I hear you.
Again, I agree with your point.
If this kind of question is debatable among native speakers, I can only imagine how useless it is on a second language proficiency test.
Cheers. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I hear you.
Again, I agree with your point.
If this kind of question is debatable among native speakers, I can only imagine how useless it is on a second language proficiency test.
Cheers. |
I believe that most NT's come across these types of questions on tests written by Koreans. I vividly remember trying to explain to a Korean teacher that to a native speaker there is no difference between "could you pass the salt?" and "would you pass the salt?" Even though I brought in four grammar books that confirmed my view, the Korean teacher refused to relent. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I'm more getting at that than the original question. Don't really have any debate with the explanations people offered at all.
I find it ridiculous sometimes the questions that people will come up with here. I think the most amusing recent hang-up that I wasn't even aware of was the purported each other/one another "issue." Apparently, according to Korean books on English grammar, you can only use "each other" with two of a noun and "one another" with three or more of a noun.
That particular example just shows a lack of descriptivist understanding of language, that archaic rules get fazed out. But some of these TOEIC questions I get hit with where a simple "it's not done that way" won't suffice make my head spin! Crap like how when a prepositional phrase showing possession becomes a possessive adjective, the article in the prepositional phrase modifies the noun instead:
"Employees need the permission of a supervisor to participate."
"Employees need a supervisor's permission to participate."
I actually had to find a rule for this.  |
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