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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Examples of a lack of creativity? |
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I also think that creativity is something we all have but it is like a muscle that needs to be developed, nurtured and practiced.
In Korea they get precious little time for or recognition of cretivity or individualism because as one of my adult students told me recently - most people are hell bent on being successful in exactly the same way through a good education and working for government or as a doctor, lawyer etc.
Parent fill up their kids lives with the same study of the same subjects from dawn to dusk all trying to compete for that top 1% spot that only a few will get. Meanwhile all that time of the other 99% is wasted in competition when it could be better spent nuturing their creativity and individualism.
He gave the example of Kim Yuna's parents who were visionary in that they allowed their daughter to pursue an unusual path to success. He said he wished more parents would allow their children to find their passions and follow rather than prescribing it for them.
My eyes were opened. My student is 34 and works in a government job. |
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Globutron2
Joined: 21 May 2011 Location: Bucheon
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Triban

Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Location: Suwon Station
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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USA be like super ultra creative yo. We got 4 pages to your 1 dog. Represent mayne.
You may have invented the locomotive and railway on the backs of Chinese immigrant workers but we invented to Car on the backs of our own (no longer existent) industrial complex!
(jokes)
Water desalination process - Sir Francis Bacon[7]
Psh...I like my water salty y'na mean? |
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Globutron2
Joined: 21 May 2011 Location: Bucheon
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well you have 4 sections, we have one.
But your population outnumbers us 5 to 1. Therefore the concentration of inventiveness is superior in England.
Not to mention musical creativity is far ahead in the UK compared to your fusion jazz land. |
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jdog2050

Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Examples of a lack of creativity? |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Tumbleweed wrote: |
Okay, I know this may be a bit of a sensitive topic, but I wanted to address it in a civilized way. Actual discussion instead of flame baiting, please.
In any case- one of the criticisms I've heard about Korean education (and about Korean culture in general), is 'lack of creativity' and 'lack of critical thinking skills.'
However, in my (admittedly short) time in Korea, I haven't seen any glaring examples of it. A sense of hierarchy and...well, maybe not conformism, but a definite sense of 'this is how we do things,' yes. But nothing that I can really point to as an example.
Which is why I'm asking you guys for examples to either support, or (perhaps even better) dispel the stereotype. Just, y'know, keep it civil? |
If you want to see the lack of creativity first hand, do an improv drama with Kids from around elementary to middle school. You'll see re-hashes of cindarella from the girls, and ultra-violent video game riffs from the boys. Nothing that comes straight out of their imaginations ever. Give that same task to a group of kids from any other country and you'd have a much wider variety of stories. |
What, you mean back home we'd have kids doing "The Life of Van Gogh"? Please, the boys will do either sports or guns or cars and the girls will do whatever it is girls do.
Elementary school when I was a kid the boys all made swords and shields in art class. Girls drew pretty pictures. |
Awesome rose colored glasses you got there. I'm not talking about gender identification. I'm talking about their particular implementation of the idea of doing anything free-form, even after examples and encouragement to be creative. It's rare that you won't have a group of Korean kids who won't just do "It's Cinderella, but they go home in a car instead of a pumpkin kekekeke", or boys doing some form of "We kill the teacher in this...".
It's honestly kind of pathetic. I'm not saying Koreans are genetically prone towards not being creative but it's definitely something not nurtured here. |
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sadguy
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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a good example of how middle school students aren't creative is watching them play a game of shirades or pictionary.
another example of creativity not being encouraged is looking at the art curriculum at universities. my korean gf is a sculpture major and she has ZERO conceptual classes. they're all classes like welding, stone work, ceramics, etc. she's not required to take any design classes or theory classes.
when i was in art school, we had concept classes and theory classes to help push and develop our ideas.
even when you walk around the university studios, there's tons of well made technically amazing work, but there are no ideas behind it. just representational stuff.
another reason why i think the creativity is low with artists is because they lack a drug culture here in korea. |
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Globutron2
Joined: 21 May 2011 Location: Bucheon
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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My Kids made all kinds of ridiculous things I'd never have thought of.
I was often floored with laughter by one kid in particular with his ideas. Quick witted creativity too, from a 12 year old.
Maybe I'm just easily amused. (No maybe about it, but w/e) |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Examples of a lack of creativity? |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
I also think that creativity is something we all have but it is like a muscle that needs to be developed, nurtured and practiced.
In Korea they get precious little time for or recognition of cretivity or individualism because as one of my adult students told me recently - most people are hell bent on being successful in exactly the same way through a good education and working for government or as a doctor, lawyer etc.
Parent fill up their kids lives with the same study of the same subjects from dawn to dusk all trying to compete for that top 1% spot that only a few will get. Meanwhile all that time of the other 99% is wasted in competition when it could be better spent nuturing their creativity and individualism.
He gave the example of Kim Yuna's parents who were visionary in that they allowed their daughter to pursue an unusual path to success. He said he wished more parents would allow their children to find their passions and follow rather than prescribing it for them.
My eyes were opened. My student is 34 and works in a government job. |
+1
This kind of stuff needs to be said. Everyone being forced into the same old from day one is so spirit-crushing, no wonder there are so many suicides.
| Quote: |
another example of creativity not being encouraged is looking at the art curriculum at universities. my korean gf is a sculpture major and she has ZERO conceptual classes. they're all classes like welding, stone work, ceramics, etc. she's not required to take any design classes or theory classes.
when i was in art school, we had concept classes and theory classes to help push and develop our ideas.
even when you walk around the university studios, there's tons of well made technically amazing work, but there are no ideas behind it. just representational stuff.
another reason why i think the creativity is low with artists is because they lack a drug culture here in korea. |
I actually agree with this (as do a number of significant writers, actors, musicians, painters, et al.), although there is a lot of fallout to deal with as well. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Examples of a lack of creativity? |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
What, you mean back home we'd have kids doing "The Life of Van Gogh"? Please, the boys will do either sports or guns or cars and the girls will do whatever it is girls do.
Elementary school when I was a kid the boys all made swords and shields in art class. Girls drew pretty pictures. |
False Dilemma Master strikes again. |
One line drive by who can only point out what others do wrong, not offer anything of his own strikes again. On a creativity thread, no less.
If someone is going to assert that somehow back home kids would be creative in how they "blow up the teacher" I have every right to suggest that 95% of boys the world over favor dropping a Nuclear Dookie Warhead.
I think the big question is- Should everyone strive to be creative?
As I said, is it worth it to develop the SUV and the minivan if all that happens is you end up losing marketshare to those derivative Koreans and Japanese?
Certain fields are good to be creative in. Others its pretty irrelevant. Even some supposedly "creative fields" it might be better to be derivative. I mean do I want to listen to experimental music and look at modern art? Or do I want to enjoy a nice Bob Ross landscape and some tried and true rap?
Now Menino might say that this is a false dilemma and you can have your cake and eat it to, to which I say fine, all of us super creative types on this thread who boast of our creativity, go out and do it.
Fact is creativity is a very rare thing. Almost everyone is influenced to some degree by the works of others.
I have to say I like how Koreans view film as the preferred medium for creativity and expression rather than music. Music is for your soul, not your brain.
Fact is, most "creative" and "out of the box" types I meet here, whether foreign or Korean, are actually very cliched and tend to be following others. OOOOOOO you have dreadlocks and tattoos and smoked a lot of pot. So creative there, never seen anyone under 30 do THAT before. |
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Pojogae
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I sometimes mumble under my breath that they lack creativity, but then I think of what great films they've pumped out, many of which display fabulous creativity. Haven't seen many recently, but during the 2000s I think this place was making some of the most intersting films in the world (excluding the syrupy stuff, of course). So obviously it can express itself in some avenues... |
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rickpidero
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, when I used to teach high school, I tried all sorts of creative and easy activities. Like "design your own video game," the entire lesson was built around giving them examples so they would start brainstorming. The end of the class had them "making" their own game. Which was basically just inserting a noun and an adjective, thinking of a title, and decide what category (which was provided from a list of 7). It was like pulling teeth to get students to write anything at all; and when they did, it was mostly just writing the exact same examples I just showed them. It was frustrating, but everyone in a while I would get some truly creative games, so not all was lost. It is out there, it is just not fostered or cultivated like it is in the West. My co-teacher said this was very hard for the students, but they needed it, because they never get it in any other class. |
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UknowsI

Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
They're not less creative, they're just stuck in a system that rewards memorization by rote and praises conformity.
Edit: typo |
Wouldn't that make people less creative? Creativity is not innate. |
As a student I have at times been frustrated by how creative solutions are discouraged. Even at graduate school level you get "fill in the blanks" exams and if you use a synonym to the word used in the book you might end up getting zero points. That is just one minor example, but I feel like this is the kind of mindset that makes people believe it's more important to remember what others have done than to come up with a good solution. I am a strong believer of the following quote:
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
Albert Einstein
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
Albert Einstein |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Examples of a lack of creativity? |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
What, you mean back home we'd have kids doing "The Life of Van Gogh"? Please, the boys will do either sports or guns or cars and the girls will do whatever it is girls do.
Elementary school when I was a kid the boys all made swords and shields in art class. Girls drew pretty pictures. |
False Dilemma Master strikes again. |
One line drive by who can only point out what others do wrong, not offer anything of his own strikes again. On a creativity thread, no less.
If someone is going to assert that somehow back home kids would be creative in how they "blow up the teacher" I have every right to suggest that 95% of boys the world over favor dropping a Nuclear Dookie Warhead.
I think the big question is- Should everyone strive to be creative?
As I said, is it worth it to develop the SUV and the minivan if all that happens is you end up losing marketshare to those derivative Koreans and Japanese?
Certain fields are good to be creative in. Others its pretty irrelevant. Even some supposedly "creative fields" it might be better to be derivative. I mean do I want to listen to experimental music and look at modern art? Or do I want to enjoy a nice Bob Ross landscape and some tried and true rap?
Now Menino might say that this is a false dilemma and you can have your cake and eat it to, to which I say fine, all of us super creative types on this thread who boast of our creativity, go out and do it.
Fact is creativity is a very rare thing. Almost everyone is influenced to some degree by the works of others.
I have to say I like how Koreans view film as the preferred medium for creativity and expression rather than music. Music is for your soul, not your brain.
Fact is, most "creative" and "out of the box" types I meet here, whether foreign or Korean, are actually very cliched and tend to be following others. OOOOOOO you have dreadlocks and tattoos and smoked a lot of pot. So creative there, never seen anyone under 30 do THAT before. |
Your post is completely obtuse. There is an art to living and that art requires creativity.
Creativity is not a very rare thing. Creativity is rare in Korea because it is actively discouraged by the culture. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Benchmarking is a great example of a lack of creativity on the peninsula. Every company, every institution relies on benchmarking; it's what R&D is in Korea.
I kind of admire the way LG does it. They let Samsung benchmark international products, do the market research about where to manufacture the product, etc. and then they basically set up shop next door making the same exact product but having saved all the money it took Samsung to benchmark. And they seem to usually make a product that is a little better. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Examples of a lack of creativity? |
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| atwood wrote: |
Your post is completely obtuse. There is an art to living and that art requires creativity.
Creativity is not a very rare thing. Creativity is rare in Korea because it is actively discouraged by the culture. |
atwood's Art to Living. Yeah, I'm sure I'll bother to read that one.
I'm pretty sure the "art" to living is dependent on doing the right thing and being nice to people, not creativity. One key thing in the art of living- It isn't just about you.
Creativity is not common anywhere. Even back home most people don't strive to be creative. Many people want to just put in a day's work doing a task and then go and do what they please.
Judging a person's life and quality of it based on how creative they are is flat out retarded and, well, narrow-minded. If one really cared about creativity and open-mindedness they wouldn't allow the good life to be solely defined by creativity.
Dave's Church of the Creativity. |
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