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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| women serve in Israel and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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We are talking about the issue in regards to the U.S. military.
But you did bring up a good point, regarding women in the Isreali military. But you have to ask are their roles in the military directly related to combat or they are support jobs? I don't know...........we can talk about it but I'd prefer to stick with the U.S. issue.
soupsandwich |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| it's combat roles. In the U.S. military it would have to be implemented gradually, but I see no reason why they couldn't. |
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Italy37612
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| If they can perform ALL the combat duties that their male counterpart does, at the same level of proficiency, then I don't see why not. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| If they can perform ALL the combat duties that their male counterpart does, at the same level of proficiency, then I don't see why not. |
BINGO.
It is a fact that women don't carry themselves the same way as men and certain drawkbacks from this. For example......one thing a soldier MUST be able to do in combat is a "fireman" carry of a wounded soldier. In addition to that, one MUST be able to drag a wounded soldier out of fire/indirect fire, what have you.
Seeing as how the physical fitness standards are lowered for women in the military..........(though, I give some praise to female Marines....they have to earn the respect..).....and given the issue of men instinctively don't like seeing women blown up, I dont' think it is a good idea.
It would put the mission in jeopardy and the lives of others at risk. But as I said, on a case by case basis, sure. I met a couple (a couple) females who could do what it takes to survive in combat and do what needs to be done in order to carry out the mission.
soupsandwich |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Then why not just make the standards the same, and if they can make it then they can make it. I would imagine, hope, that they wouldn't want to see any one blown up. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Then why not just make the standards the same, and if they can make it then they can make it. I would imagine, hope, that they wouldn't want to see any one blown up. |
Agreed. If they can pass the same standards, I'm all for them being allowed.
I have to ask though... Can all military personnel pass those physical requirements, or just combat active? |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Agreed. If they can pass the same standards, I'm all for them being allowed.
I have to ask though... Can all military personnel pass those physical requirements, or just combat active? |
Good question. Unforuntatlely there are some dirt bags who can't pass a PT test....and it has been the same since the early 80's (though that will change, very soon) Now, some are on a permenant profile which limits ones physical activity and that is understandable.
Speaking of new physical tests, for the Army anyway, the new one will be ALL combat releated, not just push ups, sit ups and a timed run. Everything about will be related to combat.
Oh yeah, there are some hard charging women in the military. As I said, I think it should be allowed on a case by case basis....not an automatic given. There ARE physcial and psychological factors that have to be considered.
One thing I have always respected about women in the U.S. Marine Corps. They go through the same hell in basic training as the men do. They are trained seperately so there is no drama or distractions. They are hard
Army women.......meh.
soupsandwich |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Then why not just make the standards the same, and if they can make it then they can make it. |
This is the most logical answer. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Leon wrote:
Then why not just make the standards the same, and if they can make it then they can make it.
This is the most logical answer. |
could be...but....I guess some of the females like to have their cake and eat it to.
The only females I would even want to work with in a true combat zone would be female Marines. But, in the end I dont' want ot see our women go to war....unless it was comparable to the Battle of Briton |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Then why not just make the standards the same, and if they can make it then they can make it. |
This is the most logical answer. |
I agree as well. Culturally, we are uncomfortable with it but with regards to equality women should be available for combat.
I want to make a side point though and this will be controversial. Gender and racial equality is the law. We all agree on that. A very brave soul in a class I had once made the following points and the women were angry (and some men) about it but logically, it was difficult to argue against it from a legal point of view.
We no longer have 'separate but equal' standards for things such as restrooms, etc. This guy said why do we still have different bathrooms (as well as other things). If the law says separate facilities was wrong for race and the gender equality laws were based on that premise then separate restrooms are illegal just as much as whites only bathrooms are. Furthermore, gay men use men's restrooms. Why can't men use the women's? Basically he was saying that ALL bathrooms should be unisex. He also said that separate men and women teams in school, unis and pro sports was a violation of gender equality laws.
I don't know the law's specific wording but he knew it and argued that its a violation. We talked about this for two classes...lol.
Culture can't be used as an excuse. Jim Crow was cultural in the south and midwest.
I will say this though, the women's movement is hypocritical. Its all for gender equality when it suits the woman but I've never heard the women's movment argue for women being in combat. I think being fighter pilots was as close as they got, not sure but I think so.
I've also not heard women's group argue against gender bias in terms of sentencing, sex with minors as in the case with the recent rash of (I must say fairly hot) female teachers in America having sex with their students (why couldn't that have been me?  ).
Okay, I've stirred the pot. What do you think? |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Culture cannot be used as an excuse......I agree. As as the mantra of "One team, One fight" is on the tip of everyones tounge.
However. it comes down to the physical make up of women. The war(s) are/is not being fought as a brigade, batallion or even platoon. It is being faught as quick, fast moving squads.
If all the women in combat can do a firemans carry....drag a soldier 200 yards to safety while having her gear on.....than, it is a possibility.
But...the military is not a democracy. The mission comes first and if the mission can be compromised by too many distractions (i.e...women in combat) than it shoudl be a no go. There are too many exceptiosn that have to be made on their behalf.....
As I said, a case by case basis............but one also has to consider what would happen to our women if they were captured. Nobody wants that.
soupsandwich |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Geez... 'the land of the free and home of the brave' sure has a lot of prejudices and inhibitions.
Many nationals and peoples throughout history have had women soldiers, from Israel of today to Vietnam of nearly two centuries ago (The Trung sisters led the resistance that defeated the vastly superior number Chinese again and again through a campaign they led of sabatoged camps and assassinated senior officers).
Get over yourself. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Geez... 'the land of the free and home of the brave' sure has a lot of prejudices and inhibitions.
Many nationals and peoples throughout history have had women soldiers, from Israel of today to Vietnam of nearly two centuries ago (The Trung sisters led the resistance that defeated the vastly superior number Chinese again and again through a campaign they led of sabatoged camps and assassinated senior officers).
Get over yourself. |
American women are generally not as hardened. And we are talking about the American military, mind you. |
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