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nstick13
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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While he may be brash in his argument regarding "being cool" I do see where he's coming from, and it's largely a geographical issue.
In NYC, which is much more dense population wise-27,532/sq mi compared to 7,544/sq mi for LA, allows people more ability to disappear. It's easier to hide a needle in a haystack than on a table.
A person's *image* is much easier displayed in LA where there are always fewer people around to hide it than in NYC where you disappear. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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My guess is neither of you actually lived in New York.
If you really believe that you need money to "act cool", you are as shallow as they are  |
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uklathemock
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Seoul is great for several reasons, but it's behind Singapore, Tokyo, HK, etc.
Food - You're not a world-class city unless you get at least one restaurant with a Michelin star.
Appearance - An architecture magazine voted Seoul one of the ugliest cities.
Also, I'd pay $200 if they'd put a trash can outside my apartment building.
Footpaths - It would be better if cars, motorcycles, and scooters weren't trying to run you over while you're walking on the sidewalk.
Weather - It rains 103 days a year. |
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dumpring
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Auckland, NZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| uklathemock wrote: |
| Food - You're not a world-class city unless you get at least one restaurant with a Michelin star. . |
I wouldn't really agree with this. There are many places in the world where restaurants are simply not judged by the Michelin guide, but have starred and trained chefs. (Melbourne, Sydney, Shanghai, Beijing, Auckland etc..)
There are also many smaller towns in Europe with starred restaurants, that doesn't make them world class.
If your point was more a jab at Korean cuisine though, then i'm probably in agreement. Good is good at best. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
My guess is neither of you actually lived in New York.
If you really believe that you need money to "act cool", you are as shallow as they are |
Again, I'm not saying how things should be, I'm telling you how things are. The class separation is very apparent in Los Angeles and it defines people in the city. Wealth and status is very visible. In New York people are more mixed together and everyone is anonymous. People live in New York because they automatically become "a person living in New York".
In LA your status isn't defined by the city but rather what you have, what you do, who you know, etc. In New York, it matters much much less.
Man, what is with you people and not being able to grasp concepts that are deeper than just one level. |
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nstick13
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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A better way of putting the whole "cool" point this guy makes--which I agree is a terrible insinuation--is that what is obvious is economic class distinctions.
As much as it has to do with whatever "cool" is it also has to do with the visibility of poverty, and the ability for those who have to be oblivious to and completely separate from those who have not. In New York, because of the population density, there's not as much physical separation between separate worlds--they interact more on a daily basis. But LA is much, much more sprawling.
What I described is likely the same phenomenon this other guy was referring to without having to use the word "cool". |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| People talk of sophistication on this board, yet many expats in Korea dress like total slobs. |
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Italy37612
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| People talk of sophistication on this board, yet many expats in Korea dress like total slobs. |
You always seem to go off on dress codes man.
I will admit I am not the snappiest of dressers. Usually just a polo shirt and slacks / jeans when I am walking around town. More often than not the shirt isn't tucked in. When I am at work I at least wear a button down shirt and slacks and the shirt is tucked in. That is more than a sufficient dress code in my book.
However, I find it absolutely absurd to see Korean men dressed in suits and ties to go shopping in Kangnam on the weekend. |
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yeti08
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Location: Anyang - Pyeongchon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Italy37612 wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| People talk of sophistication on this board, yet many expats in Korea dress like total slobs. |
You always seem to go off on dress codes man.
I will admit I am not the snappiest of dressers. Usually just a polo shirt and slacks / jeans when I am walking around town. More often than not the shirt isn't tucked in. When I am at work I at least wear a button down shirt and slacks and the shirt is tucked in. That is more than a sufficient dress code in my book.
However, I find it absolutely absurd to see Korean men dressed in suits and ties to go shopping in Kangnam on the weekend. |
That ^
I had a Korean coworker tell me that my dress was very unprofessional and that I should be wearing a coat and tie to my hagwon. LOL! 
Over dressing looks just as douchie as under dressing. My button down and trousers or nice jeans 90% of the time tucked is very sufficient when I am expected to wear slippers or Crocs in the school. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I repeat what I said: the posters on this thread talk of sophistication yet most expats in Korea dress like slobs.
And maybe the Korean guys went shopping for a gift for a wedding or something, who knows. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
My guess is neither of you actually lived in New York.
If you really believe that you need money to "act cool", you are as shallow as they are |
Again, I'm not saying how things should be, I'm telling you how things are. The class separation is very apparent in Los Angeles and it defines people in the city. Wealth and status is very visible. In New York people are more mixed together and everyone is anonymous. People live in New York because they automatically become "a person living in New York".
In LA your status isn't defined by the city but rather what you have, what you do, who you know, etc. In New York, it matters much much less.
Man, what is with you people and not being able to grasp concepts that are deeper than just one level. |
Still trying to struggle with the issue you are trying to convey-
You tell us that the class separation is 'very apparent' in LA but not as clear in NY. I agree with that and that alone is what I have a problem with.
Wealth and status are visible in NY as well, however not everyone gives respect because you are driving a more expensive car. Takes a bit more to earn: something like character helps.
Your bank account determines your value in LA? Depressing  |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| nstick13 wrote: |
A better way of putting the whole "cool" point this guy makes--which I agree is a terrible insinuation--is that what is obvious is economic class distinctions.
As much as it has to do with whatever "cool" is it also has to do with the visibility of poverty, and the ability for those who have to be oblivious to and completely separate from those who have not. In New York, because of the population density, there's not as much physical separation between separate worlds--they interact more on a daily basis. But LA is much, much more sprawling.
What I described is likely the same phenomenon this other guy was referring to without having to use the word "cool". |
Why is it a terrible insinuation? This is how American (and other) societies judge people.
Yeah, if we lived in utopia everyone would be treated equally regardless of anything else. But people tend to gravitate towards people with money, power, influence, etc. This is how society works.
I don't think that people with less are necessarily uncool or unwanted. But does society? Hell f'ing yeah. Why is this point even debatable? This is life, and arguing over p.c. terms is absolutely ridiculous. This is reality folks.
Last edited by methdxman on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
My guess is neither of you actually lived in New York.
If you really believe that you need money to "act cool", you are as shallow as they are |
Again, I'm not saying how things should be, I'm telling you how things are. The class separation is very apparent in Los Angeles and it defines people in the city. Wealth and status is very visible. In New York people are more mixed together and everyone is anonymous. People live in New York because they automatically become "a person living in New York".
In LA your status isn't defined by the city but rather what you have, what you do, who you know, etc. In New York, it matters much much less.
Man, what is with you people and not being able to grasp concepts that are deeper than just one level. |
Still trying to struggle with the issue you are trying to convey-
You tell us that the class separation is 'very apparent' in LA but not as clear in NY. I agree with that and that alone is what I have a problem with.
Wealth and status are visible in NY as well, however not everyone gives respect because you are driving a more expensive car. Takes a bit more to earn: something like character helps.
Your bank account determines your value in LA? Depressing |
Definitely less social mobility in Los Angeles. In Manhattan everyone has an elevator pitch about how cool they are... and it usually works. That crap doesn't fly in LA. If you have a nice job 90% of the time you better show a nice car to go with that. Or show your network, show something tangible.
New York is all about how you sell yourself and what you're worth. Anytime you meet someone in New York it's a g'damn job interview or networking business cocktail.
Both are superficial cities but in different ways. LA is like playing poker with all your cards showing. In New York you won't ever see a single card. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Going back to the topic:
The Asian tourists that love Seoul love it for the same reason why people like amusement parks. You get your thrills for a few days and you bounce. You don't want to live in Disney World for a month you'll probably get cabin fever and kill someone.
Seoul is undoubtedly a tough place for most foreigners to live for a myriad of reasons. But is this the only way to judge how good/bad a city is? I dunno, for some people it is.
But Seoul is not designed to be comfortable for foreigners who want to stay here for a long-time. It's designed to cater to the basic superficial tourist who wants to have creature comforts they may not have back home, shop, and spoil themselves.
I personally don't think Seoul that great of a city, but there are tons of places that are much worse to live in. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
Going back to the topic:
The Asian tourists that love Seoul love it for the same reason why people like amusement parks. You get your thrills for a few days and you bounce. You don't want to live in Disney World for a month you'll probably get cabin fever and kill someone.
Seoul is undoubtedly a tough place for most foreigners to live for a myriad of reasons. But is this the only way to judge how good/bad a city is? I dunno, for some people it is.
But Seoul is not designed to be comfortable for foreigners who want to stay here for a long-time. It's designed to cater to the basic superficial tourist who wants to have creature comforts they may not have back home, shop, and spoil themselves.
I personally don't think Seoul that great of a city, but there are tons of places that are much worse to live in. |
That's a pretty good take on things.
I think what nettles a lot of foreigners though is how Koreans don't have much perspective and so when tourists says they like something about Korea they take it as an affirmation that Korean culture is somehow superior to the culture the tourist is from. And crow and crow and crow about it. |
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